Jesus and the Mosaic Law...

by mP 128 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • mP
    mP

    mP

    Jeremiah is saying the law wll be part of the perfect king of Judah.

    Deputy:

    Spoken like a JW. You're good at putting words in Jeremiah's mouth.

    In case you are not aware, it wasn’t Jeremiah that whispered “the law wll be part of the perfect king of Judah” in your ear, that was the WT. WE can all read EXACTLY what Jeremiah SAID.You don’t get to tell us what the bible says,

    mP:

    Sorry iwas attempting poorly to summarise the feel. I dont know why Jeremiah was introduced into this discussion as the Q clearly focuses on Jesus. Honestly Jeremiah can say whatever he wishes and considering Jesus came after it doesnt matter. I said this before.

    Deputy:

    WE CAN ALL READ IT FOR OUR SELVES.

    mP:

    And thats why i say always include inline quotes if possible! especially when someone screams and says wheres that in the bible! I try my best to do this enough of the time, because as you state we can all read the text ourselves. We dont need some one else to twist and turn the text into a story with differenet meaning aka WT style.

  • mP
    mP

    PT

    MP

    You completetly overlooked the first part of my comment. Which was that the Mosaic Law was a bi-lateral covenant between God and Israel. It had legal conditions. Israel broke the covenant and failed to inherit all the blessings. One of the blessings was they would be a light and bring blessings to the Gentiles. They failed. Israel was destroyed in 70AD. The contract ended. No more temple, no more ceremonial animal sacrifices. No more theoracy.

    Jesus was regarded as the true Israel of God. He fulfilled all the conditions of the mosaic law and received all the blessings. He has the authority to institute a new covenant, which he did. Fleshly Israel was given first right of refusal to be part of this new covenant.

    J

    mP:

    I have highlighted most of your text as background and xian theology. Either wa

    PT

    esus explained to his disciples that the ceremonial laws were fulfilled in him, no further slaughter of animals needed. He explained that sin was not just adultery, but was the LUSTFUL NATURE in the heart/mind. To enter his Kingdom one had to have a chage of NATURE, that enables one to overcome the lusts that give birth to sin, that laws, any laws could not achieve.

    mP:

    WHere does Jesus say sacrifice was not needed, scripture and quote please ? Jesus himself went to the temple many times, the main purpose of the temple was to give sacrifices. That doesnt make sense. If there are no sacrifices then the temple is outdated as it was filled with altars etc to facilitate this. NO where does he say destroy the temple and replace it with a different device.

    Scripture please..

    Im not sure what your point about adultery is, i dont know what or how to reply to this. That line is mostly nonsense, it can mean different things to different people. Diff cultures have diff opinions on what is just. Jews back then had a very different one to what you or me think.

    PT:

    Does it really matter to you either way what Jesus did or not intend ?, I

    ...

    I have seen some of your older comments and you don't seem to have any love for fleshly Israel or Jesus, a little bit ingenious don't you think ? Or do you have other motives? Just sayin !

    mP: Regarding Jesus, my answer doesnt rely on whether he existed was the son of God or was a mere mortal. In our history for 2000 yrs he has been a figure head and example for much. Because of what Jesus didnt say a lot of horror and unspeakable crimes were and are committed today. Half the world was a slave in those times, im not saying Jesus could have prevented it by words. ALl im saying is if he tried a few times to say SLAVERY IS WRONG, then maybe a few people might have realised and perhaps that insitution would have ended earlier than it did. The same goes for womens equality and pedophilia. Of course greedy barstards would not listen, but a lot of people just might have and this can only be a good thing. Pedophilia has nnormal practice in times past, everybody did it in the open it was the hidden thing of today.

    I dont like the racist attidude of the OT. All that we are chosen people and we have the right to kill, rape and steal from you nonsense should be condemned. This attitude is what got Jerusalem destroyed in 70AD. Rome got sick of the jews rebelling because they wouldnt integrate and many rebel groups formed and went about causing trouble. Surely you can see that this separation based on race is well the cause of a lot of unnecessary trouble.
  • mP
    mP

    DeputyDog

    OK, call me stupid! Are you saying babies can't covet or be self-centered? Why do they throw tantrums? Do babies love God with all their heart soul and mind or love their neighbor as themselves?

    Taken from your http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/613_Commandments

    Do Babies

    LOVE GOD? To love Him — Deut. 6:5

    FEAR GOD? To fear Him — Deut. 10:20

    There are many Laws that they (babies) don’t ‘do’ or keep.

    mP:

    Im sorry i dont kick little kids in the teeth for crying or a tantrum, im not a big bully. I know kids dont keep laws, but we cant expect them to drag a bull for sacrifice on the first of May can we ? TO pretend like that is stupid.

    Kids are too young to love or fear god, they are just starting out. By kids i mean say under 10. They dont really grasp the reality of everything, they dont concentrate or think hard enough about what these really mean.

    If your implying that we should stone kids like the torah says or kill them for not loving god then none of us would be hear.

  • EntirelyPossible
    EntirelyPossible

    OK, call me stupid! Are you saying babies can't covet or be self-centered? Why do they throw tantrums? Do babies love God with all their heart soul and mind or love their neighbor as themselves?

    You're stupid.

  • mP
    mP

    Who is worse Hitler or the Torah. I always suspected that the Jews in the OT went after other Gods because the kings of Judea were complete control freaks and living there was a living hell. Think Saudi Arabia today, but magnitudes worse, who wouldnt want to live under a different system ? Big Jehovah never helps when powerful nations want to invade and yet he demands an entirely stupid set of laws. What possible benefit did the jews back then gain from their relationship w/ Jehovah.

  • tec
    tec

    mP, you realize that Peter took flak for having gone and eaten with the Gentiles... but the Spirit led him to do so, and he followed, and the Gentiles were given the spirit as well.

    Later Paul gives him some flak for separating from the gentiles when the other Jews were around, becasue he should not have been doing so. But to begin with, he obeyed the Spirit, and the others accepted this from him when he explained it.

    It might have been harder for some to accept, and perhaps even easy to fall back on old laws, rather than looking to the Spirit. Speculation, but it makes sense to me just by observing people today.

    Peace,

    tammy

  • mP
    mP

    TEC:

    mP, you realize that Peter took flak for having gone and eaten with the Gentiles... but the Spirit led him to do so, and he followed, and the Gentiles were given the spirit as well.

    Later Paul gives him some flak for separating from the gentiles when the other Jews were around, becasue he should not have been doing so. But to begin with, he obeyed the Spirit, and the others accepted this from him when he explained it.

    It might have been harder for some to accept, and perhaps even easy to fall back on old laws, rather than looking to the Spirit. Speculation, but it makes sense to me just by observing people today.

    MP:
    We can drill into everything that Peter and Paul discussed and what they said, but that doesnt change the fact that Peters original position was what Jesus taught him.

    I think we both know what happened between Peter and Paul, that doesnt change my assertions of what Jesus believed, taught and his legacy on his apostles.

    If anything you have yet again demonstrated that Jesus failed to teach his apostles properly or that they were idiots who didnt understand. Both ways look for Jesus, he didnt teach what you claim or he selected totally incompetant men on the most important of tasks. This sounds more like a man than a god.

    YOu seem to think that because Paul corrected jesus that makes jesus forgiven. I am troubled that a mortal like Paul is correcting a super natural super nice guy called Jesus, that is ridiculous.

  • tec
    tec

    We can drill into everything that Peter and Paul discussed and what they said, but that doesnt change the fact that Peters original position was what Jesus taught him.

    Who do you think the Spirit was who told Peter to go to Cornelius? Who do you think bestowed holy spirit onto Cornelius and his family? Christ... both.

    I think we both know what happened between Peter and Paul, that doesnt change my assertions of what Jesus believed, taught and his legacy on his apostles.

    Once again, Christ is the Spirit who taught Peter about Cornelius, and who bestowed the spirit upon Cornelius.

    If anything you have yet again demonstrated that Jesus failed to teach his apostles properly or that they were idiots who didnt understand. Both ways look for Jesus, he didnt teach what you claim or he selected totally incompetant men on the most important of tasks. This sounds more like a man than a god.

    He did say that He had more to say to his disciples... things they could not yet bear. (John 16:12)

    He also said "For God so loved the world that He sent his only begotten son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have everlasting life. Becasue God did not sent His Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him."

    Regardless, he also told parables about those invited into the kingdom, not coming... so that the workers were sent out to find anyone at all who would come.

    Christ was sent to the lost sheep of Israel. To honor the covenant between Israel and God. When Israel rejected Christ... that invitation opened to everyone. Anyone with faith in Him. (new covenant)

    YOu seem to think that because Paul corrected jesus that makes jesus forgiven. I am troubled that a mortal like Paul is correcting a super natural super nice guy called Jesus, that is ridiculous.

    Paul never corrected Christ. Christ is the one who taught Paul.

    Peace,

    tammy

  • mP
    mP

    MP We can drill into everything that Peter and Paul discussed and what they said, but that doesnt change the fact that Peters original position was what Jesus taught him.

    TEC Who do you think the Spirit was who told Peter to go to Cornelius? Who do you think bestowed holy spirit onto Cornelius and his family? Christ... both.

    MP I think we both know what happened between Peter and Paul, that doesnt change my assertions of what Jesus believed, taught and his legacy on his apostles.

    TEC Once again, Christ is the Spirit who taught Peter about Cornelius, and who bestowed the spirit upon Cornelius.

    MP: If anything you have yet again demonstrated that Jesus failed to teach his apostles properly or that they were idiots who didnt understand. Both ways look for Jesus, he didnt teach what you claim or he selected totally incompetant men on the most important of tasks. This sounds more like a man than a god.

    TEC He did say that He had more to say to his disciples... things they could not yet bear. (John 16:12)

    MP:

    Im not questioning who told Peter and what happened with Cornelius, this doesnt change what jesus said in the gospels. Fine so jesus told Peter to goto Cornelius. THis doesnt change jesus position or what he taught on slavery, rape and the mosaic law.

  • mP
    mP

    TEC: He also said "For God so loved the world that He sent his only begotten son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have everlasting life. Becasue God did not sent His Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him."

    Regardless, he also told parables about those invited into the kingdom, not coming... so that the workers were sent out to find anyone at all who would come.

    Christ was sent to the lost sheep of Israel. To honor the covenant between Israel and God. When Israel rejected Christ... that invitation opened to everyone. Anyone with faith in Him. (new covenant)

    mP: YOu seem to think that because Paul corrected jesus that makes jesus forgiven. I am troubled that a mortal like Paul is correcting a super natural super nice guy called Jesus, that is ridiculous.

    Paul never corrected Christ. Christ is the one who taught Paul.

    mP:

    Thi sis all great but it doesnt change Jesus position on slavery, rape, pedophilia and the mosaic law.

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