Jesus didn't care about chronologies and bible knowledge--why should we?

by humbled 93 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  humbled

  Hello.

  If the topic is of interest still--I am up for talking!

  Why do I give any weight to second-hand Jesus stories? I have observed that there is a nub of reality at the base of most stories. So much so that the most pernicious lies are almost always built upon a fact, a truth.

  When I look a the broad tendancy of a happy creature, with a healthy family, in a secure community it is impossible ignore patterns that repeat themselves. I see repeating patterns in the reflexive teaching of Jesus: love your neighbor as yourself, do unto others as you would have them do unto you. My take away is that there is something behind this that I cannot know absolutely--and words, mP, are in short supply to describe. Yet, once anyone sticks a word, a label on that SOMETHING, the wrangling begins and you are likely to be stoned or burned at the stake for thinking about it yourself.

  It is hard to consider Jesus and who he is-or was-apart from our indoctrination. We all have our prejudices-can't help it. Who in recent times got to meet him at a wedding feast? Or fishing? Or the like? Of course whoever first told us a Jesus story told us with a little bit of spin-- I heard about Jesus as a little girl through the lense of Catholicism. Catechism. Indoctrination. Hard to shake it.

  But maybe Jesus was not so hide-bound.

  Jesus is reported to have said at John 7:16,17 "Jesus then answered them, and said, 'My teaching is not mine, but his who sent me. If anyone wish to perform his will, he shall know of the teaching, whether it is from God, or I am speaking from myself.'

  I accepted the invitation. It is free from formula and lets me acknowledge or not whether I think there is anything to it. AND it prevents me from creating a RELIGION of my experience. I can only invite others to do the same. No bow-beating.

  Because it is relevant, if you like the letters that led to my leaving/expulsion can be accessed through this forum. At the "search" box write: How I left Jehovah's Witnesses/MaeveCourteau. The Bethel response is included.
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  Pterist

  Humbled **** Why do you think so many ex-dubs stay hung up on the numbers thing?***

  To prove the org is wrong. It is their only foundation to claim their exclusitivity as "god's only channel" (1919) , prove their dates are flawed, they are at best just another denomination, and at worse a false prophet !

  Shalom
• 

  Londo111

  Humbled: I agree with your OP! Exactly!

  And I agree with Pterist--we have to engage in complex discussions of chronology to debunk Watchtower theology and help awaken the captives.
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  Pterist

  Lars *** CHRONOLOGY is part of the "extra oil" the wise virgins bring along with them and which enables them to have their lamps burning in time to get into the wedding feast when Christ arrives. The "foolish virgins" are like those who look down on chronology and discourage people from focusing on it. The chronology was not placed into the Bible to be ignored, but to help recognize the Christ when he arrives*****

  That is your opinion consistant with the WBTS FALSE understanding, the oil is Godly living, a spirit filled life that LITERALLY can NOT be shared. Do some research on what BEING AWAKE means SPIRITUALLY !

  Shalom
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  Larsinger58

  PROLOGOS: Acts 1:7 you will not understand time- appointed times, -- placed in the father's jurisdiction---

  1tim. 1:4 Genealogies--foolish--

  LARS:

  Prologos, please note that some events are linked to specific events and fulfill certain prophetic patterns, and some events are left within God's jurisdiction. The two are not to be confussed. Acts 1:7 says, "6 When, now, they had assembled, they went asking him: “Lord, are you restoring the kingdom to Israel at this time?” 7 He said to them: “It does not belong to YOU to get knowledge of the times or seasons which the Father has placed in his own jurisdiction..."

  Here's where you are confused. First Christ kicks Satan out of heaven and then himself returns for the 2nd coming. The kingdom is set up in the heavens at this time and he begins to seal the elect while Satan prepares the world for Armageddon. So there is an interval of time between the second coming and when Christ sets up his 1000-year rule in the earth. Acts 1:7 is about when Christ sets up his rule in the earth, not in heaven. When Christ begins his rule in the earth is not known to anyone but God himself. But the year of the second coming fulfills several prophecies, including the "70 weeks", the "1335 days", the "7 times" and the "last generation." There are also other details, such as the messiah does not appear until after the "great tribulation", which was the Holocaust. He is "near the doors" after the State of Israel is set up, and thus does not arrive before that event.

  So you must not confuse ARMAGEDDON with the SECOND COMING! They are two different events. One fulfills specific dates, the other does not. Acta 1:7 was speaking of when Christ would begin to rule in the earth and that is connected to Armageddon, not the 2nd coming. So Armageddon is a date only within the jurisdiction of God; but the 2nd coming must occur between November 30, 1992 and April 6, 1993 per the Bible. I hope that was not too confusing.

  Thanks for sharing your misunderstanding with us so we can clear this up.
• 

  tec

  But if God's fair, then why would he put himself at the end of an equation or a sentence that I couldn't read-------unless some wiser man told me?

  Great point, and one that I think some people fail to grasp. Some will say... if God is so powerful, then could he not have kept the bible 'inerrant'. But if God is so powerful... then would anyone think that his form of communication is limited to a book to begin with?

  The written word is not God's chosen form of communication... it is ours.

  God has always spoken to those who have the faith to hear Him. Now he speaks through His Son and Holy Spirit (the actual Word of God)... to anyone who has faith to hear. But the Spirit is not limited by language, or education, or gender... and certainly not limited to a book.

  Peace,

  tammy
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  tec

  And I agree with Pterist--we have to engage in complex discussions of chronology to debunk Watchtower theology and help awaken the captives.

  Like damage control ;)

  One that would not be necessary if people were looking to Christ... rather than at 'chronology'... to begin with. (People can make numbers say whatever they want to see them saying. No matter how many times they have proven to be wrong.)

  I will say that even if I had been baptized, the numbers would have done nothing to convince me one way or the other. But I suppose that is because I was not looking at the numbers to convince me to begin with. For those whose faith is based on those numbers, then I can see how using those same numbers might get them out of the wts, at least.

  Peace,

  tammy
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  Larsinger58

  HUMBLED: Jesus hearkens back to Daniel, true. But this connection at Mat. 24:15 says "When therefore, you shall see, stationed on holy ground, that destructive abomination, which is spoken of through Daniel the prophet,(reader attend) "then let those in Judea escape to the mountains." Daniel's numbers are not material to this warning--not in this instance.

  Hi Humbled. I hear what you are saying, but the "appointed times of the nations" is linked to the 1290 days which are mentioned in Daniel. When this is mentioned we see the Jews leaving Jerusalem and going into exile. When we see just the opposite, the Jews returned to their homeland, then the 1290 days end and so do the "appointed times of the nations" which fulfills the 1290 days. The "1335 days" is when the Christ will return in te flesh and begin ruling from heaven "amidst his enemies." But as we all know, there is a short period from when he returns and when he begins his 1000-year reign after Armageddon.

  But the "great tribulation" is also dated in the Bible. It occurs during the final "70 weeks" of 490 years. The first-coming 490 years ends in 36 CE, so we can calculate the 490 years of the second coming by just counting down 70-week periods down to our day, thus:

  70th week ends in 36 CE, fixing the pattern of 70 weeks.

  4 x 490 = 1960; 1960 + 36 = 1996

  1996 ends the 70th week of the 2nd coming, which begins in 1506.

  The 70 weeks are divided into 1 week, 7 weeks and 62 weeks. The 7 weeks, 49 years, repesents the 70th jubilee period. The "cut off" which is when the "great tribulation" will begin occurs after 62 weeks, or 434 years into the final 70 weeks. This leaves 1 week of 7 years for the "great tribulation" to take place, wherein 2/3rds of the Jews are to be exterminated.

  1506 + 434 = 1940

  So per the Bible, sometime between 1940 and 1947, the extermination of two-thirds of the Jews was to occur. This is precisely when the Holocaust occurred.

  So. sorry. the chronology is very much involved with these events. Saying Jesus was specifically not dealing with the chronology of Daniel and things less specific I don't think is an option that you have here. Jesus would not ignore something in the holy word like so many today want to do. People like to skip over what they don't want to deal with and only deal with what they like, thus self-defining their own religion rather than the whole package given to us by God. Chronology is part of the Bible. If you sniff your nose up at it now, then Christ will sniff his nose up at you on JUDGMENT DAY.
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  Larsinger58

  I'm just going to throw this out here. Daniel 12:12 says:

  "12 “Happy is the one who is keeping in expectation and who arrives at the one thousand three hundred and thirty-five days!"

  So, just what does this mean, when does it apply? What are we supposed to do about this? Ignore it? Just wondering. mP, when are you saying this applies?

  Just wondering for those who want to ignore chronology in the Bible, plus think the WTS is wrong to at least try to figure it out!
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  tec

  FAITH is the oil that the wise virgins bring with them.

  We will not be in doubt when Christ returns. ALL the nations will see Him.

  "At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory."

  Peace,

  tammy