by humbled 93 Replies latest watchtower bible
Pterist
I wouldnt trust Pauls opinion on any matter. This is the same guy instead of helping the run away slave in Philemon tells him to go back for more punishment to his chrsitian master. Paul is a Roman stooge just like jesus and his pay your taxes and keep your slaves.
MP
We can see from the festival of fruits that it was definitively a spring festival, which got updated. The problem is they had a dodgy lunar calendar. Too bad Jehovah didnt fix that, being accurate helps a nation have a better growing season.
LARS:
Actually, the luni-solar year is not that "dodgy." You see, the spring equinox was a specific time of the year. The pagans simply began the new year with the first NEW MOON after the equinox. In this way, the intercalations were automatic for most of the years. Only when the new moon was very close to the equinox was a decision made to itnercalate that year or the next. Then every 19 years everything evened out and the cycle began again.
The Jews called it a little more specifically, though. They began their new year with the first FULL MOON after the equinox. They aligned their harvesting based on this. It worked out for them just fine.
That's why 3.5 times or 3.5 years is sometimes 1260 days and sometimes 1290 days.
As far as your inference of pagan tradition being adopted by the Jews. Know that God created the heavens, the solar system, the seasons, etc. and the lunar cycle and the solar cycle and the zodiac. Those stars and planets were specifically put there for TIMEKEEPING per the Bible. And it works great. An observation in ancient texts of plenets and eclipses or lunar dates can be matched very specifically to specific years with great precision, now that we have computerized astro programs. That's why the 511 BCE lunar observations can't be a guess, but have to have been purposely put there based on an observation text.
But think about how amazing this all is! All of the academic world is pretending there the current timeline is valid and believable when we have direct proof that the Bible's timeline is the correct one now.
But I suppose, all this information was given to me since I'm the Christ and I need to know and it protects me from being fooled by all this academic b.s. So I'm in a great position, academically speaking.
I'm dealing with REALITY and fulfillment of Bible prophecy. Others are just guessing and hoping.
You're spot on on those luni-solar years with the intercalary additions, Lars. You keep us on our toes. Still can't be onboard w/ your chronologies .
Maeve
LARS:
Actually, the luni-solar year is not that "dodgy." You see, the spring equinox was a specific time of the year. The pagans simply began the new year with the first NEW MOON after the equinox.
MP:
Lunar calendars are dodgy because its difficult to compiute the exact day any equinox occurs. Theres no value in counting the moons the real value is knowing the equinoxes so one can pick the seasons and the prime time to soe and reap.
LARS
As far as your inference of pagan tradition being adopted by the Jews. Know that God created the heavens, the solar system, the seasons, etc. and the lunar cycle and the solar cycle and the zodiac. Those stars and planets were specifically put there for TIMEKEEPING per the Bible. And it works great. An observation in ancient texts of plenets and eclipses or lunar dates can be matched very specifically to specific years with great precision, now that we have computerized astro programs. That's why the 511 BCE lunar observations can't be a guess, but have to have been purposely put there based on an observation text.
MP:
I agree with most of your statement. Archeology shows that astrology was very much a part of Jewish life. In fact Josephus tells us there was a zodiac wheel in the temple in Jerusalem. There many pictures of other wheels in other palces of worship throughout judea. Not only was the zodiac about keeping time, they actually believed the signs had magical powers. Look at Job 38;32, they really bevelied in Orion just like the Egyptians.
ALl the sevens and twelves are there because the original big 7 and 12 are of course the planets and the months. All astrology.
All im saying is be honest about it, dont lie and deny as most christians do. Christianity and Judaism is simply a refined nature worship which always involves the sun and the zodiac.
TEC: You have misread this totally, but this is a wonderful passage regarding details of the 2nd coming!
When Christ returns He also gathers those who belong to Him. . He will come down from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and who are left will be caught up with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. (1Thess 4:16 - 17) Now, I understand how you are interpreting this. But read closely! The dead rise first! Then after the dead rise, they join those still alive. Then all of them together are changed. In that way, no one precedes anyone else to heaven. That was the main point of this reference, which you left off. They knew back then that some would still be alive when Christ returned and many would die and have to be resurrected. So they were wondering just what group might go to heaven first. Paul is simply explaining no group goes to heaven before the other but they all togehter are changed when the time comes... See, you left off the important first part: "15 For this is what we tell YOU by the Lord's word, that we the living who survive to the presence of the Lord shall in no way precede those who have fallen asleep [in death];" Now what do we really learn from this? Well... 1) We learn that everybody is in the flesh at the time they are changed into spiritual bodies together, all at the same time. Thus the resurrection of the elect is back into a physical body. 2) We learn that this resurrection is at a time when Christ is in a spiritual body, that of Michael the archangel and thus still in heaven. But we also know that Christ returns to the earth in the flesh after Satan is kicked out of heaven, who will also be in the earth. Meaning? Meaning that the first resurrection of the elect back into the flesh occurs just before Christ returns to be in the flesh with them! So why wold Christ, after resurrecting the dead elect back into the flesh, return in the flesh as well, if soon everybody would be transformed into spiritual bodies at his 2nd coming? Well, it turns out it is not so soon and it is not at his second coming. What happens is, that Christ while in the flesh along with all his elect, rule in the flesh in the earth for 1000 years while Satan is abyssed. Then Satan is let loose for a short while and then destroyed. Then after that, those still alive are judged and granted eternal life. After that, all the dead, the good and the bad, come back to life in the flesh to be judged. This is the period of time in the Bible called "Judgment Day." The elect serve as judges of all the dead. Then, after the last wicked person is cast into the lake of fire, then death and Hades are destroyed forever as well. Then at that point, when death is no longer a threat to mankind, everyone on the earth being deemed righteous and eligible to live forever, then Christ and the elect all together are changed into their spiritual bodies. Thus the so-called "rapture" does not take place at the time of the second coming, but not until after Judgment Day. DID THIS ACTUALLY HAPPEN? Yes! Now as stated, the 1st resurrection back into the flesh occurs before the 2nd coming. The corrected ancient timeline plus the end of the gentile times in 1947 point to 1992 as the Biblical year of the 2nd coming. So the 1st resurrection should have occurred before then. So where are all the resurrected? Well, just as Christ himself takes up the body of the prodigal son, those resurrected are resurrected within the bodies of modern living ones! 1 Corinthians 15 clearly says that those resurrected are like "seeds" that are planted into bodies. But these bodies are described as "weak" and "corrupt" and "physical." Meaning they are sown back into imperfect bodies. Does that mean Jehovah re-constitutes from graves imperfect bodies to be used by the resurrected? No. The Bible is describing the imperfect state of living elect within whom the dead in Christ are resurrected! Thus they share a modern identity of someone already here. This accomplishes two very important things: 1) It makes the 1st resurrection appropriately invisible to the rest of the world, and 2) It totall eliminates all the time it would take to teach and educate people from the ancient past how to adapt to the modern world. They arrive sharing a modern identity and language and all the knowledge of all the events that happened after their death! So they are instantly ready to be king-priests and judges with zero orientation time! So this is what this passage is saying. It is not saying Christ is coming down to call those in Christ up to heaven at the 2nd coming. That sounds like a great thing to happen if you are one of the elect, but there is much work to be done in the earth before the elect rise up to heaven to sip on pina coladas all day and play dominos! (just a little humor....teehee). They are there to try to save as many humans as possible from Satan's murderous designs. So, TEC, are you sure you're of the elect? You could be possibly. But keep in mind that what is really happening is part of the "new wine" which is something that Christ new the "old wineskins" would not be able to handle, so he doesn't force that new wine into those old wineskins because they old wineskins would burst. But nor does he cast the old wineskins out! So don't give up on Christ. After Armageddon, when it is clear I just happen to be the Christ, all my elect will be on the same page, and you will join me during the 1000-year reign while still on the earth to try to save the rest of the world. Now I was sort of disappointed once I became the Christ that I wouldn't immediately be going up to heaven. We complain about being in these physical bodies. But then why do we get those crowns and all that glory? It's because of the work we do; the self-sacrificing work of serving others and helping others to get life as a benefit of knowing and worshipping God! So after all that work is done during the 1000 years and then during Judgment Day, our crowns and glory in heaven will have been well earned. The more humans we save, the better, right? RIGHT!
In that way, no one precedes anyone else to heaven.
No one IN CHRIST precedes one another... to be caught up and changed... with Christ. To enter the kingdom. Christ has shown me this. You missed my point, though ;) . That when He comes in the clouds... there is no waiting period. (you say that wts picture represents you in the clouds, and that is the sign of the son of man) But the sign appears, Christ comes, and we are caught up with Him (those who have fallen asleep AND those still living) WHILE He is in the clouds. . Put the two verses together and it is easier to see that it occurs all at once. . He will come down from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and who are left will be caught up with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. I declare to you, brothrs, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. listen, I tell you a mystery: We wil not all sleep, but we will all be changed -- in a flash, in the twinkling of an eyes, at the last trumpet. The resurrection, and the change, occurrs in a flash... AT HIS COMING... caught up with Him in the clouds. . Then the thousand year rule with those who are caught up with Him, in His Kingdom on earth. Not as we are in these bodies, but in the spiritual bodies. (thy kingdom come, on earth, as it is in heaven) Then Satan is let loose, and misleads those outside the Kingdom (the goats who were not invited inside) to ride out and destroy those people in the kingdom, and 'fire comes down from heaven and devours them' So armageddon happens AFTER the thousand years, not before. . THEN, lars, the second resurrection occurs. The resurrection of the dead, and the judgment for those who are not written in the lamb's book of life. Though God may have mercy upon whomever He chooses to have mercy upon. . That is something that some people don't seem to get, those who state that only Christians will receive entrance into the Kingdom. If you are a christian (annointed by Christ, chosen by Him, belonging to Him... not just because you are a member of the religion, and so call yourself a christian), then you are already caught up and gathered to Him at His coming, during the first resurrection. Those who are resurrected to life (whose names are written in the lamb's book of life), at the second resurrection, are other than these brothers of His. Because these were ALL caught up already at His return. . Back to the matter at hand, though: . Paul also makes it clear, lars... that the physical comes first (the seed)... then the spiritual. Not the physical,then the physical again, then the spiritual. . You seem to be misreading 1Corinthians 15. We are right now in the perishable, the weak vessel, the physical body... we will be raised to the imperishable, the spiritual body. The same body that Christ has now. (he came in a perishable body, lars, the first time around) . Two things, lars. Not three. You are adding a step that does not exist. . You can ask Christ to show you these things, Lars. (you might need to stop thinking that you are the christ first though ;) ) . Peace to you, tammy
Pterist: I wouldnt trust Pauls opinion on any matter. This is the same guy instead of helping the run away slave in Philemon tells him to go back for more punishment to his chrsitian master. Paul is a Roman stooge just like jesus and his pay your taxes and keep your slaves.
ROFL! Pterist, you remind me of Satan a little. You find fault with every little thing. Nag, nag, nag. All negative. If someone goes to help a rich lady across the street, you'd say they did it in hopes of getting a reward. Or is someone gives a lot of money to charity, you'd say they did it for the tax cut or publicity. Always negative.
Satan blames God for making him so beautiful and that is what caused his downfall. But maybe that is partly relevant. I kind of understand that emotion. If you're really pretty, you have more power than the average person who does not have those looks. Beautiful women get the best offers. They even get worshipped to an extent like in the Miss America and Miss Univese pageants. So beauty complicates things as does wealth. Also people who are very brilliant and educated are respected. We genuflect to doctors and lawyers and judges, those in high position. And, again, anybody with a lot of money get that extra respect.
Now on the universal scale, this is a lot of debate and nit-picking and all that. It's time consuming to go to trial on every issue tht is brought up. So even though Jehovah has allowed a period of time for Satan to influence the world so we could see the result, the bottom line is that all that nit-picking is allowed for a short time. God is simply not going through all that silliness.
So here's the bottom line. The last word to Satan from God is that of a sculpter to a piece of clay. The clay must be molded based on what the sculpter's purpose is. But here Satan is, deciding he wants to be whatever he wants to be and not what the sculpter wants. So what is the result of that? The sculpter throws out that clay. End of story.
So when presented with what developed with Satan, in order to get rid of Satan, legally, and to avoid all the jive complaints and "frivolous lawsuits" just on technicalities, God decided to simply kill off EVERYBODY! Every was sentenced to death from the least of mankind to the greatest of angels, including his only begotten son, Jesus Christ. To get rid of Satan, the angels and the elect and Christ were glad to die. But this shuts Satan up. If an edict from God, the Creator, is that all creatures have a limited lifespan, like an animal or a plant and then must die, what can he say? That is how God designed it. He created things to have a temporary though glorious life and then die. He made his creatures MORTAL.
On the legal side of things, something Satan is an expert at, God was well within his rights to do so. So without judgment or bias or preference, everybody must die once. But guess what? God can bring back anybody he wants after they die. He can bring back his favorites and whomever he wants to. He also does not have to bring back anyone he doesn't want to.
So Satan is like someone in a month-to-month rental condo, who ha a zillion complaints against the landlord and is about to sue him in court for all these little things and tie up the courts for 1000 years in frivolous lawsuits. But, since he is on a month-to-month lease, all the landlord has to do is simply terminate his lease agreement at the end of the month. Then the issues involved with the condo become instantly irrelevant.
You see, without LIFE, there is nothing. In God's universe, life is not a right, but a gift! For those who don't appreciate that and don't want to comply with God's standards, that gift is revoked after a short lifetime. But for those whom God likes, he brings them back after death and grants them eternal life.
What can Satan say? Not a damn thing.
So ultimately, it is really not necessary to take issue with anything Satan has to say or promote or claim or nag about. Satan doesn't even have to be condemned. That's because he, like everybody else including Jesus Christ, are mortal and must die at least once per God's decree. Does God lose out? Well, it's painful to see the death of those he loves, but in the end, since these come back to live forever with him, God gets what he wants.
So you see, free moral agency was very important, giving people and angels a choice. That had its need and value, but only temporarily. After everyone makes their choice, then those making the wrong choice are discontinued. Those making the correct choice are happier than ever.
So back to Paul. You're finding fault with Paul and Christ and the Christians and me. I can see that. But in the end, God will rule and so will I and so does Paul. So it's a POWER THING. Whomever has the most power can do what they want. So you don't like Paul? I suppose that is inevitable. But God likes Paul and that's the end of that.
HUMBLED:You're spot on on those luni-solar years with the intercalary additions, Lars. You keep us on our toes. Still can't be onboard w/ your chronologies 
. Maeve
LARS: You know, sometimes this has to be accepted. Everybody can't follow how these things work. It's like the VAT4956 with the two 511 BCE lunar references in it that match the original Biblical timeline. Some people just don't get it. They see all the other 70 references that match 568 BCE and they compare the two. They think since most of the references match 568 BCE then that must be the message in the text. They don't get it that the 511 BCE insertions had to be intentional and the only reason for having a text like this was political. All the original astrotexts had to be destroyed to agree with the new, "official" timeline. So the VAT4956 was created to do just that, appear like it is supporting the new timeline, which it does, superficially. But this was also an opportunity to insert among over 100 references to 568 BCE some "errors" that came from the original chronology. So this is an effort to "hide in plain sight" what the original chronology was.
But that's kind of complex if someone doesn't understand scams and propaganda. People have in mind what they want to believe and its true to them until something happens and changes their reality. It's like the video of the Rodney King beating. It shocked so many people, right? Well it didn't shock anybody in the black community who have been complaining about police brutality by the LAPD for decades. It's nothing new for them. Plus, I worked for the LA Sheriff's Department and I know all about "street justice." So under normal circumstances, a black man who decides to endanger others by fleeing from the cops is a dead man, period. For some reason, perhaps because another unit came up, they were not able to execute him in the field. The only thing necessary was to claim he drew a weapon on them and they had to use deadly force. But the police carry extra firearms for that very reason. That is, just in case their own life is put on the line or threatened, if they decide to use deadly force, they can make the paperwork work out by planting a weapon on that person and claiming that person pulled a gun on them. My interpretation of why they were kicking Rodney King, who should have been a dead man, was because for some reason they couldn't kill him on the scene like they wanted to, maybe because another unit showed up. So having missed that opportunity for a "clean kill" they repeatedly kicked him. They knew he was a living dead man. A few seconds more and he would have been dead. So it was no big deal kicking him for no reason since to them he was a dead man who escaped.
But how will you convince the average, very gullible person out there who believes everything the media tells them there is something secret and sinister going on? You can't. A million black men will claim the police beat them up for no reason and they were not doing anything. But if they see it on a video, all of a sudden they are in shock.
People see the facts and stare at it and don't get it. Their minds are not in the "investigative reporter" mode, which is where you need to be. I post that image from the Revelation book about the dead black child's face and I don't get any real comments on it. They SEE IT. But it makes no sense, so they go about their own business and pretend everything is okay. They see Russell buried under a pyramid and that same pyramid is on the dollar bill. Do they make a connection? NO! Because they don't want to.
Do you know why Hitler started to round up Jehovah's witnesses during WWII? Was it because they insisted on being conscientious objectors? Was it because they refused blood transfusions? No! It was because they were linked with the Jewish Illuminati! But why? Well, remember when Rusell was bragging about how no one is asked for contributions because some rich benefactor was funding everything? Well, guess who was funding the organization at the time? The Jews! And what was part of Russell's campaign? ZIONISM! Remember? "Zion's Watchtower"! Fine the WTS was promoting Zionism, but the were also being funded by Zionists. Hitler couldn't trust this connection, so the witnesses were locked up. Now was this done based on some false pretense? Are the witnesses completely innocent of paganism and Freemasonry?
You DECIDE:
What does Christmas have to do with Christ? Was does Easter have to do with Christ? Well what do pyramids have to do with Christ?
Why was Russell so into ZIONISM? Who was funding his organization and work in the beginning?
Freemasons use cryptic artwork to communicate. Do you see any cryptic images in the artwork below that you think the WTS didn't intend to put in there? Is this just some artwork fluke that got published without anybody noticing?
Show this to the average devoted JWs, and they will start making excuses.
Some people don't see, because they don't want to see. They choose "selective ignorance", like a wife who knows her husband is probably cheating, but she does everything she can to avoid finding out for sure. She suspects, but she doesn't want to KNOW.
Lars*** Pterist: I wouldnt trust Pauls opinion on any matter. This is the same guy instead of helping the run away slave in Philemon tells him to go back for more punishment to his chrsitian master. Paul is a Roman stooge just like jesus and his pay your taxes and keep your slaves.
ROFL! Pterist, you remind me of Satan a little. You find fault with every little thing. Nag, nag, nag. All negative. If someone goes to help a rich lady across the street, you'd say they did it in hopes of getting a reward. Or is someone gives a lot of money to charity, you'd say they did it for the tax cut or publicity. Always negative. ******
Lars you are confused, I did not say the above, that was mP's reply to me.
