After the cult how many reject faith in anything?

by Seraphim23 136 Replies latest jw friends

  • Julia Orwell
    Julia Orwell

    I believe you can know the flood is bunk etc and still believe. Scientists have found evidence that the 'flood' was when the Sea of Mamara breached the Bosporus and flooded into the heretofore fresh water Black Sea, and then it flooded down to Mesopotamia or somewhere at the time said to be Noah's ark. Now the Bible said it flooded all the earth, but to the Bible writers, the entire earth was known to them as just the middle east/Asia Minor.

    Yep, the Bible writers had a limited perspective, but that doesn't mean there's not some deity. Evolution does not preclude a God either imo. A deity could have driven it, because natural selection, although it's what Darwin stated was the cause and scientists have yet to come up with another 'material' or natural cause, lacks the ability to create new features, though not shed old ones.

    I was raised atheist, turned JW, and am now some sort of Christian who incorporates other possibilities. Maybe you can have it both ways...who knows.

  • *lost*
    *lost*

    Ponice

    cofty - quick reply, cos I got other things going round in my head at the mo. The Devil, I cannot have an opinion on that at the moment, I will have to do a bit more research first.

    From memory, loosely. Saul became corrupted, he was faithful, David knowing Saul was appointed by God, respected the arrangement and didn't kill saul when he had the chance. ( is this what you mean )

    Isn't this lovely though. We can amicably discuss theories and exchange thoughts and info without any puch ups. Love it.

    If people present good info, or a good argument on something, i go look it up.

  • cofty
    cofty

    Lost - No this is what I mean..

    "Again the anger of the Lord burned against Israel, and he incited David against them, saying, “Go and take a census of Israel and Judah.” - 1 Sam 24:1

    "Satan rose up against Israel and incited David to take a census of Israel. - 1Chron 21:1

    Chronicles was written after the exile where Israel was exposed to the dualism of the Zoroastrian religion and god's nemesis was born.

    Yahweh no longer had to take all the blame but he was left looking impotent and pointless.

  • *lost*
    *lost*

    julia I don't overthink it at the moment. Bit overwhelmed with it all, so much info out there to get through. i do wonder this though, about the flood.

    Under the ice caps, they have discovered evidence of tropical plants (disclaimer, I am not a scientist and not stating this as absolute fact )

    High up in some mountains in arid places they have found fossils/evidence of marine life.

    Petrified forests.

    cofty - i get you. will look it up

    edit; cofty have you any knowledge of the Fibonacci Sequence ? and the Golden spiral ?

  • cofty
    cofty

    Lost - Yes I have, I studied maths through Open University and that was part of the course. Sunflowers are an interesting example.

  • blondie
    blondie

    Is this faith in religion or anything? I am careful not to assign good motives to anyone based on their religious or non-religious status.

  • *lost*
    *lost*

    oooh cofty - i like you very much. lol

    It's fascinating. Had heard of it, but only gave it a quick ganzy this morning ( due to a numbers thing )

    it's present in all of creation (umm nature) isn't it

  • Seraphim23
    Seraphim23

    I love these comments from both sides of the equation. Perhaps God is the equation ??? lol

    Anyhow regarding the problem of evil, a quick comment on its complexity because it has a few categories. There is human evil which covers a lot in its own right, but there is also natural evil that is relevant to belief in a God. Natural evil could include human evil but is often separated for convenience. Natural evil apart from human evil is to do with things like earthquakes, animal savagery, natural disasters including those originating from outside the earth itself, like meteorite strikes that injure or potentially wipe people and life off the map. How could a God figure into this is the question of course?

    Another subset of the problem of evil includes biblical interpretation of the character of God and how to approach the bible itself in the first place. Does it say anything true about God at all? And if not does that mean a God doesn’t exist? If it does have some things right about God to what extent and how does that work? Of course at this stage we are in the realm of theology and that strays into the domain of the metaphysical and that depends of course on the question of supernatural forces being true or not which brings in the limits of science question. One subject always goes into another but this is a subset of the problem of evil fortunately and not the main categories of the subject.

    The interesting question to me is what is evil anyway? Evil seems to be relevant only where intelligent beings are concerned who can conceptualise it. If there were no life in the universe would evil still exist? Well the forces we associate with evil certainly should. If one galaxy crashes into another is doesn’t complain, indeed no one even cares, but if it had a mind it probably would. Good and evil seem to be in nature merely the forces of chaos and entropy/decay and order creation and the two are intimately interlinked things of course. The word evil gets used when these forces affect living beings. However evil is more than a word because when animals are affected by these forces as we are, they don’t call it evil or even think objectively about it in abstract terms, but they resist it and the pain nonetheless. So in a more primitive sense it is evil to them as well.

    Does it matter though? Does it matter if all life gets destroyed by natural forces as seems destined to happen to all life in the end? Well, as a rock doesn’t care about being pulverised but a cat does, I guess then it would matter to life if life is wiped out. So evil exists as long as living beings exists, although the forces are the same whether life is here or not. So evil is a property of consciousness really.

    This if true is interesting because natural forces aside, one human can decide to do bad to another, independent of natural forces of chaos and order. This is also called evil but evil from intent, which is associated not with rocks, order or chaos but living consciousness. God if he exists apparently has intent also. (I do believe in God) In a universe governed by two main forces associated with good and evil, can any intent that produces an action introduced into that system, result in anything other than good or bad? Perhaps good and bad have to exist for freedom to exist. Else no creative forces, no evolution, no free will?

    This was a quick outline of the issues and problem the way I see it, with a few ideas throw in.

  • mrsjones5
    mrsjones5
    i What freedom do you have that I don't?

    I would like to know too.

  • *lost*
    *lost*

    seph23

    oh gosh, lol, gonna take a bit of going through that is, leave it for later. lol.

    quick note. evil in nature. not sure. but.

    with domestic animals. they are generally, by their very nature, non aggressive or nasty. but sometimes you do come across a bad un, that has a bad streak, meanness.

    if you google artic fox trials russia. it will show you a process a breeding program where they bred the wildness out of the foxes. the foxes became more domestic dog like in their nature. also coat changes. and tail changes.

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