The antidote to the myth that JWs are declining

by slimboyfat 153 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • steve2
    steve2

    SBF's views on the "state" of JW membership are always welcome - even though I sharply diasagree with him. He reminds us about the close correlation between "wishful thinking" (i.e., wanting the Watchtower to decline in its influence and so result in fewer joining) and the actual statistics. I could not agree more. Often, we start on a personally held premise and develop our arguments from there. The fact that many here learnt this selective-attention "trick" from the religion of our birth and upbringing is compelling but hardly fully explanatory. Who can forget the delighted, enthusiastic commentary from both the platform and publications about the dwindling attendance-rates of the "Churches of Christendom" and the loudly trumpeted expansion of the organization. Wishful thinking is no respecter of religious affiliation or non-affiliation as the case may be.

    So, SBF's periodic reminding us of the strong tendency of humans in general to turn wishful thinking into fact is a necessary part of any debate on this topic.

    My views on the "state" of JW membership, as with SBF's, have been well-aired on this forum. A third "view" would be, let's just see what happens - if anything - as time passes.

    My main arguments are as follows:

    Baptisms are consistently trending downwards worldwide. At District Conventions, the ratio of attendees to baptismal candidates is strikingly huge. Gone are the days when hundreds lined up for baptism

    It takes on average 6 to 10 years for average numbers of publishers to consistently approach peak numbers (that is a significant often overlooked change in growth patterns; in the JW growth heyday - 1950s - 1980s - average numbers of publishers easily outstripped peak numbers within 2 years, often within 1 year. The United Kingdom and New Zealand are two of many countries where the lag between peak and average are most clearly demonstrated

    Most growth of JWs nowadays comes from born-ins. This is another striking change: In the heyday, most growth came from door-to-door "converts.

    The revolving door syndrome operates healthily in the organization. In this regard, it is similar to many millenialist groups such as Adventists, Christadelphians and Mormons where back-sliding status becomes the norm.

    There are more concrete occurences of Kingdom Hall closures or mergers. Is this significant? Hard to say - but it is a change not before happening.

    In countries with substantial migrant populations, JWs tend to do better. In New Zealand (as I have often reported) English-speaking congregations struggle to get attendances - especially during the week. By sharp constrast, immigrant-language congregations thrive and show lots of growth (relative to the much larger English-speaking congregations.

    The "benchmark" for reporting hours continues to be reduced. It is easier to "get away" with one or two hours per month than ever before (I draw upon my own experience here).

    Memorial attendance last year showed over 300,000 fewer than the year before. Okay, I anticipate SBF being able to explain this away. The best strategy I guess is to await this year's attendance which SBF has made varying predictions about.

    There are also clear-cut instances of decline (Japan) and of persistent stagnation (Denmark has hovered around 13,000 to 14,000 since the 1980s). There are more countries see-sawing between +1% 0% and -1% - hardly earth-shaking, but representing a clear change in growth patterns.

    On the question of whether the organization will face a mass exodus in the next few years, I am closer to SBF's views than others who predict such an exodus. Whatever the figures show, something will remain unchanged: The Watchtower will always have more of a problem with membership-apathy than membership-apostasy.

  • wasblind
    wasblind

    I agree Slimboyfat, particularly with the idea of projecting one's feelings onto the situation.____SEPRATION OF POWERS

    What is felt can go both ways. Those who harbor love of the WTS

    continue to think that the Society will continue to grow because they still believe that " Jehovah " has it's back

    Who in thier RIGHT mind can trust a religion that has been wrong on everything for over 100 years

    ESPECIALLY when it come to the calculatin' of numbers.

    LOL. This is the same religion that thinks Grand parents and thier grand children

    are the same generation

    If that don't prove the math is off what will ?

    .

    .

    .

  • Oubliette
    Oubliette

    I think y'all should read Billy the Ex-Bethelite's thread:

    aka "Confessions of a Congregation Secretary" or "How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Lie!"

  • JW GoneBad
    JW GoneBad

    Lack of interest and an uncaring attitude on the part of many JWs is in itself very telling.

    The C.O. visited our congregation a few weeks ago and was nagging us about low meeting attendance percentages. In our congregation we have a 30% absenteeism on average. Low meeting attendance however is not unique to our congregation; the C O said the circuit average is also close to 30%.

    So while we may not be seeing much of a decline in general numbers, apathy and a could-care-less attitude has certainly set in. It is like a plague! So, what good is there in having constant membership when the trend of low meeting attendance is critically on the rise too!

  • slimboyfat
    slimboyfat

    Steve what year did you stop reporting time?

  • Dagney
    Dagney

    Gosh...I think about this all the time. I am amazed when I look around my former circle of friends that they are still "in," and the kids. My opinion is the numbers are stagnant, no growth from the outside in my metropolitan city area. The "hope" is still a strong belief, even though I think most are not buying into the "it's so close" mentality with the continuous let down over the past 15 years since the 1995 generation change. They want that panda/lion/swiss chalet and to see the resurrection.

    I don't think the WTBS is going anywhere. I call BS on the numbers. I do believe it will continue to evolve slowly into stricter, even more fundamentalist organization. The elderly will be gone in the next 5 years, so the last of the good ol days will be gone. The baby boomers don't know where to go or what to do with themselves, but will feel freer once their parents are gone. The kids, seems like a few just need the structure, and if you have some good friends, it's a good life. I have a nephew that is a MS, and he works a little, then travels the world meeting other JW's. He absolutely needs this religion...so opposite from his siblings who left years ago. He'd be lost and has no interest in growing in basic knowledge of the world and how things work.

  • slimboyfat
    slimboyfat

    Dagney, consider this scary fact: among JWs who are active now in 2013, there are more who were baptised since the "generation" teaching was dropped in 1995 than remain from before that change. It just goes to show how the Watchtower caravan can carry on regardless when they are able to recover and forget such an enormous setback as the failure of the "generation" teaching in 1995, because new JWs who are unaware of past fiascos arrive all the time to replace those who fall away.

  • steve2
    steve2
    Steve what year did you stop reporting time?

    1982. I should have added that many members of my immediate and extended family are still in. Based on what I did not get away with when I was an active JW (fewer than 5 to 6 hours evoked pressure from elders "concerned" about this personal decline compared to the previous year). I now know from guarded conversations with family and a handful of "still-in" friends that they are never questioned or approached when they report 1 to 2 hours per month. I even recall a platform announcement from the early 1980s that the brother tallying the hours would be approaching brothers and sisters who reported only an hour or two to assess whether that low figure would even be forwarded to the branch - so concerned were they that it might set an unhealthy precedent. That never happens nowadays - whatever is reported is accepted.

    Blondie has given us Kingdom Ministry references over the years about the increased acceptability of reporting less than an hour. These references are consistent with what I hear directly from (excuse the term - I would never call them this to their face) "barely-active" JWs.

  • sir82
    sir82

    increased acceptability of reporting less than an hour.

    The "less than an hour" rule has not changed since its inception. Only the "elderly and infirm", who are pre-approved by the congregation service committee, can report less than 1 hour in a month and still have it "count".

    The "less than 1 hour" rule does not apply to 99.9% of JWs.

  • slimboyfat
    slimboyfat

    So since you left Steve there are 7000 extra JWs in New Zealand (almost double) and 5,300,000 more JWs worldwide (more than treble).

    It certainly seems to be the case that many JWs report less time these days. On the other hand there are also many more pioneers now than there have ever been before. In fact the number of regular pioneers will probably top 1 million this year. Even taking the reduction in hour requirements into consideration that's a tremendous increase. Maybe JWs are bifurcating into super zealous members who become pioneers and the increasingly lazy who only put in a couple of hours a month.

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