Fallacies about Faith

by tec 340 Replies latest jw friends

  • tec
    tec

    http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/jew

    1 a... a member of the tribe of Judah

    and

    http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/israelite

    In early Jewish history, a member of the 12 tribes of Israel . After the establishment (930 BC) of two Jewish kingdoms (Israel and Judah) in Palestine, only the ten northern tribes constituting the kingdom of Israel were known as Israelites. When Israel was conquered by the Assyrians (721 BC), its population was absorbed by other peoples, and the term Israelite came to refer to those who were still distinctively Jewish—the descendants of the kingdom of Judah. In liturgical usage, an Israelite is a Jew who is neither a cohennor a Levite (see Levi).

    Peace,

    tammy

  • Band on the Run
    Band on the Run

    In early Jewish history. Earth to Tammy. We do not live in that time period. It is 2013. Look at a standard dictionary. A Jewish is one of the Jewish faith. We aren't talking about some long ago time period. Jews have different definitions of who is Jewish. The conservative/Orthodox crowd goes with someone whose mother was Jewish. Reform Jews point to the concentration camps and say anyone deemed Jewish is a Jew.

    Tammy's usage of Jews shows what century she resides in. Ever the rare Old Testament rendering. Never a modern usage.

  • tec
    tec

    Well, we were referring to who the Jews descended from. And the dictionaries that I put up are standard dictionaries, lol. What else would they be?

    Peace,

    tammy

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    When Christ walked the earth, he limited himself to speaking wisdom. Current (scientific) truth, such as E=MC 2 , won't change.

  • humbled
    humbled

    If I reflect on the use Jesus is said to have made of the word "faith" or when he is said to use the word "believe", I believe he allows for a looser and broader term than any Christian orthodoxy ever allows.

    How dare he give credit to the Syro-phoenician woman's faith?

    How dare he let Legion go about his community to witness of the release of his madness at the hands of the man he so briefly knew?

    How dare he wonder at the faith of a Roman soldier's untutored faith--faith greater than any he has seen in all Israel?

    How are we to judge what faith is if these individuals--(and there others like them in the gospels)--were ignorant of doctrine/orthodoxy? Can faith really be so disparate, so unruly?

    I certainly don't know.

    But I hope so.

    If Tammy's faith is unorthodox, well, so what?

  • Band on the Run
    Band on the Run

    Jgnat,

    I agree. It is hard to find Jesus under the teachings of the Church or other people. I notice that the Gnostic sayings resemble many of the sayings in the canonical gospels. It is impossible to know what he meant. When I study the objections of the Reformation and the Roman Catholic Church, I doubt that Jesus ever conceived of the dogma and doctrine. I find something compelling in the gospels. What he said has not been outdated. There appears to be a timelessness and truth to it.

    It is sad that groups such as the Witnesses use his words to gain control over people. I wish people questioned authority more. The academic books on religous history freed me. Reading them was revealing. It opened news world to me. I have no answers now but many questions. We fight each other so much about Jesus. I believe he would be appalled.

  • tec
    tec

    Christ is wisdom. Wisdom - Christ - speaks Truth.

    .

    Proverbs 8:4-9

    To you, O men, I call out;

    I raise my voice to all mankind.

    You who are simple, gain purdence;

    you who are foolish, gain understanding.

    Listen, for I have worthy things to say;

    I open my lips to speak what is right.

    My mouth speaks what is true,

    for my lips detest wickendess.

    .

    .

    Christ is Truth. What else would He speak except truth? Are we really debating this point?

    Some current scientific truths may not change. Many have, and still will. So picking up a current scientific textbook is going to teach you current scientific knowledge. Not necessarily truth.

    .

    Peace to you (and to you Humbled , so good to hear from you),

    tammy

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    You might be in a doctrinal box, tec. After all, you are pulling selective scriptures to make your point. I am wondering aloud based on what Jesus actually said. He stayed out of science territory, such as the location of the Pliades, and the speed of light.

  • LV101
    LV101

    I'm never shocked at statements (behavior) made by Christians or Christ's followers or those who look to him or human beings in general, for that matter. I know I don't have Tammy's faith/strength and kindness dealing with others in a forum like this. I force myself to act in a cultured way in public around rude/antagonistic people. Most humans have way too many questions. Maybe that's why religions are losing their adherents.

    In total agreement w/humbled that she (Tammy) has a right to an unorthodox belief system.

  • adamah
    adamah

    Yeah, jgnat is dead on: unlike Hindus who always have managed to discern between scientific knowledge and religious philosophy, whereas Xians have completely failed to keep the two separate, since unlike the Vedic writings of Hindu beliefs, the Hebrew Bible makes claims about the World which have in all cases proven to be flat-out WRONG, i.e. the World is NOT flat (it's an oblate sphere) there is no firmament, there are no storehouses of hail and snow above the firmament, rainbows are formed by diffraction of water molecules and aren't exclusive to rain (in fact, they can be created with a waterhose), human disease is NOT caused by sin by micro-organisms, etc, etc.

    The only way to salvage the credibility of the Bible is by dismissing it all as allegorical alone, which obviously is not going to be acceptable to believers who cling to the illusion of God as Intelligent Designer, since they also depend on a literal resurrection of the dead, JWs dream of immortality in the New System, etc.

    TEC, you sure use a loose definition of "truth"? But regardless, can you give ONE example of a "truth" spoken of by Jesus? I don't mean a WISDOM saying, or a reference to the promise of the Kingdom of God, etc, but a useful CONCRETE truth that was a proven fact, a breakthrough for the knowledge of mankind.

    Otherwise, you're a bit like a fired-up cheerleader who has a lot of spirit, but since you never actually learned anything about the game of football, you don't have anything of substance to offer (other than a general cheer of, "Gooooo, TEAM!!").

    Adam

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