OTWO said- Jesus came to earth and spoke. He said his message. He gave us all we need. So he should not be visiting people via dreams and voices.
Au contraire.
Despite the pressures of entering the Kingdom of God and planning for the upcoming Battle of Armageddon, Jesus still manages to finds a little free time to run a little tutoring business on the side making personal appearances in people's heads, telling believers insider information about nifty little stuff like sharing the recipe for resurrection (mix one baby's tooth with a quart of 'living water', stir, and let it sit for 1 hour).
TEC said- The debt that was owed to death you mean? Chirst did pay that... but God is not death.
You speak of death as if it's some kind of mysterious independent entity that's not even mentioned in the Bible, like the Black Plague? Remember, God is supposed to have power and control over death, itself (which is kinda important in order for Him to mix baby's teeth with living waters to resurrect the dead, raise Lazarus from the dead, etc).
Need I remind you that the 'debt' for Adam's disobedience IS in fact owed to GOD, and the curse of death is AS A RESULT of God's judgment?
That's the WHOLE POINT of Xian theology, where Jesus dies to atone for the sin of Adam, the wages of sin being death, etc. My Gawd, TEC: you know that, but when asked to acknowledge that directly, you immediately flip-flop back to "God didn't cause death to enter the World". Per Xian theology, "perfect" Adam died as an unrepentent sinner, and only the death of a perfect lamb can atone for the sin of the 'perfect sinner' (which is illogical and oxymoronic, as well: if one is "perfect", they cannot sin).
TEC said- How do you reconcile 'god requiring human sacrifice'... and God saying, "I desire mercy, not sacrifice" ?
That's a question YOU should be answering for US, since it's not our responsibility to resolve the many contradictions in the Bible for you, or to sweep them all under the rug or dismiss them without comment.
SNR said- Most of us can see what the story says, that you can't and are defending it is tragic.
TEC said- Apparently you can't, if you are defending those who harmed/killed those who cried out to God for help or justice against S&G.
Puleeze: where is God NOW to listen to the prayers of those killed DAILY in modern times? It's easy to be the big Super Hero in ancient fictional writings, but not so easy in real-time.
(I addressed the issue of Lot's wife and the son-in-laws for their crimes....)
TEC said- Or if you cannot understand that God provided the sacrifice and did not allow Abraham to harm Isaac... the child that would not even exist except that God promised him to Abraham, and that his offspring would be reckoned with Isaac. God also saved ALL of Abraham's house, right down to today.
God giveth and God taketh away.... Yet another permutation of "might makes right"?
The OT record is replete with God murdering people, instituting blood sacrifices (animals mainly but at a pinch he was happy to take down opposing priests or cities), initiating genocides, inspiring blood obsessed scriptures and so on.
TEC said- The OT record is replete with men crediting God with such things... but the TRUTH is the one who shows us the truth about God. Something else many of you cannot seem to see that the 'story' culminates IN.
Jesus studied and memorized the Tanakh, quoted from it, and said in the NT that he didn't come to change a word of its laws, but to fulfill its prophecies. So fact is, Jesus ALREADY POINTED to the TRUTH about God exactly by quoting scriptures about the Flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, Moses leading the Israelites out of Egypt (after the plagues), etc. Jesus vouched for EVERY LAST WORD and atrocity found in the Torah, without voicing ANY moral concerns or apprehensions over the actions contained in the accounts. Jesus was A-OK with ALL of it.
Are you calling Jesus a liar then, or trying to contradict his words, after the fact?
The supposed culmination of all this blood letting was the human sacrifice of Jesus.
TEC said- If you mean that Christ ended all the sacrifice being done that came before... by laying down his own life for those he loved, so that death would have no authority over those who were covered by his blood (same as the entire households of Israelites were protected from death in Egypt, as long as they had the blood of the lamb on their doorpost... foreshadowing this), so that they would instead have LIFE in them... well, that sounds like a good thing.
TEC, your mind is incredibly elastic, with the capabity to contradict yourself within moments. You cannot see the problem with death having authority one minute, and claiming Jesus as offering a sacrifice to conquer death the next?
TEC said-
It is of course true that I do not know all the details of what really happened in all of these stories. But I can and do know God... by knowing Christ. So when there is something written that is contrary to the nature and truth that Christ shows of God... I KNOW that there is something missing; something I am not seeing/understanding; or that the tale itself is incorrect. I am looking at Christ to know the truth about God.
No, you're not, since there IS no rational explanation OTHER THAN the Bible is contradictory, and that forces believers to perform mental gymnastics that makes Nadia Comaniche's parallel bar performances seem child's play.
BTW, TEC, you really don't understand 1 John 4, since it's indirectly referring to the gnostics, early hererodoxical believers who held that Christ didn't appear in the flesh (incarnate), but was actually a spirit being who only looked to be a mortal. The answer to acid testing whether a false teacher (a mortal, BTW) was true or false was to "test their spirits" and see if they said Jesus was incarnate (if so, they pass) or a spirit being (they failed). It has NOTHING to do with you and your claimed auditory hallucinations, and it never will.
Adam
