Fallacies about Faith

by tec 340 Replies latest jw friends

  • tec
    tec

    Okay thanks. I had given up on an answer, but someone bumped the thread, so that's good.

    I won't have all the answers to questions that you have Zound.

    I think that is probably a good thing, and I think why I did not feel compelled to rewrite the answer I originally lost, after I lost it.

    Because instead of giving up on an answer... instead of looking to me for an answer... you could/should look to Christ. He is the Truth. Not me, not Paul, not Peter, not the Pope, not the GB. Just Christ. He is the One with all truth; all the answers. You may not hear an answer on the spot; you may not be able to hear THE answer. But a little faith will have you knowing that He WILL answer, according to His time, and not necessarily the time you want.

    Plus, we are not always able to hear those answers... sometimes we have to have building blocks so that we can understand the answer. (sometimes we have to tear down the blocks that others have built... so that we can see the simple truth... through all the complication that man has covered the simple truth up with) So sometimes we have to learn other things in order to be able to hear an understand the answer to the question that we asked.

    Just like in math... you have to learn simple arithmetic before you can start to learn algebra. (okay, calculaters make learning simple arithmatic not as neccesary, lol, but you get my meaning, I hope)

    If death was to blame - then the firstborn would have lived a long life and simply died of old age. But their lives were cut short - death came early. Who caused death to come early to these people?

    God allowed death to 'come early'. Pharoah caused it by his treatment of the Israelites. His actions showed that he did not care about his people OR the firstborn OF his people (since he had how many examples before this last 'plague' to show him that everything God said would happen, would happen) Remember that Pharoah would have been 'god' to his people. Yet Pharoah has no authority over death, nor could he save his people from death; nor were Pharoah and the gods of Egypt more powerful than the God of Isreal, and none of their gods could protect those who worship them from death or plagues or anything; God, however, (and the lamb... Christ... represented for us as the blood of the lamb on the doorsteps) COULD and DID protect His people from death, AND, all those plagues.

    That authority has been granted now TO Christ.

    (Those who were taken by death on that night still have a resurrection... some to life; some to judgment. Same as anyone not in Christ.)

    Are you saying death has a mind of it's own?

    I don't know. A will though, yes, I would say that I understand that.

    Kind of sounds like a personification... An entity who can be owed something and who can "pass over" Egypt killing kids? (I'm happy to be corrected if you'll clarify?)

    Yes, it is kind of like a personification... an entity with a will... but I do not understand anything beyond that, at least not at this time. I can only sort of grasp that.

    (firstborn does not mean kids... though probably some were? Firstborn are those who are born first of their house/family/etc.)

    You two ever see the movie, the Neverending story? Remember the great Nothing (I think that is what it was called) and its agent, that wolf thing. (been a while, sorry)

    Death is like the great nothing; and the Adversary (the devil, Satan) is like the agent of the great Nothing (the wolf thing).

    Hope that helps you to be able to at least get a sense of this, and as always, look to Christ for the Truth. Not me.

    Peace to you both.

    Your servant and a slave of Christ,

    tammy

  • cofty
    cofty

    instead of looking to me for an answer... you could/should look to Christ. - Tammy

    In other words - just make stuff up, and if it contradicts Tammy's guru you obviously aren't listening properly.

  • tec
    tec

    Peace to you Band!

    Why wasn't God also interested in the innocent S & G members who were raped by Jewish people?

    There were no Jewish people at this time.

    Later, when there are Jewish people, the law would prevent such things. (if they obeyed the law) God makes it quite clear how one is to treat an alien among them. Especially since they know what it is like to BE aliens and slaves among others.

    "Do not mistreat an alien or oppress them, for you were aliens in Egypt."

    It is also clear that Israel very often failed to keep the law, and there are also times when God allowed them to fall into the hands of their enemies because of the transgressions of Israel.

    Israel might have decided that they did not have to treat those outside of their nation as the law required them to treat one another; but a) there is the command above about how to treat aliens, and b) the teachings of Christ later (not that this was a new teaching, but rather one that they had forgotten or failed to learn) about how to treat even your enemies.

    Where is he today as many members here struggle with severe illness?

    Illness, death, suffering are all part of this world and this flesh that has sin and death in it, Band. The sin and death in the flesh ALLOWS it to become ill and to die. Everyone - christians and non-christians alike - have suffered from the ailments of the flesh.

    Jesus is also inconsistent with the ones he heals.

    He healed all those who came to Him in faith. That was consistent. The only possible exception I can see to that is the servant whose ear Peter cut. But perhaps there is more to that than just what we can read.

    Lazarus is raised. How about others as good as Lazarus or all the afflicted people who could make contact with Jesus.

    Had nothing to do with someone being good. Had to do faith to BE healed (also being a member of Israel... but even those outside of Israel who showed faith in HIm had their requests granted)

    The early healing stories in the NT involve close physical proximity to the historical Jesus. Larazus raises the stakes.

    I'm not sure what you mean here about Lazarus raising the stakes. What about the centurion who asked that his servant be healed... and had the faith that Christ could simply state it, and it would be done?

    These stories are so culturally one sided. War crys of the Hebrew nation.

    There is a lot of rebuke from God through the prophets to Israel as well, as well as abandoning them at times because of their deeds/their breaking the covenant made with Him.

    It is good to see that most people reject these stories today. I will accept the Bible with modern higher criticism bc it is a standard text.

    You may do as you choose of course. But you often misunderstand or don't even know what is written, as shown in our conversations. That might be worth you keeping in mind.

    Jesus whispering sweet nothings in my ear is breaking important God/human supplicant boundaries.

    If by sweet nothings, you mean speaking... well, would these be the boundaries that 'modern higher criticism' by man has imposed, but that have nothing to do with what Christ and God have taught and done?

    Because I don't know how you can continue to assert that Christ does not speak... if you are looking at what IS written.

    Peace to you as always, and may you be given ears to hear if YOU wish them. May anyone who wishes hear as the Spirit and the Bride say to YOU, "Come... take the free gift of the water of life !" (Which life is holy spirit, poured out from God, through Christ.)

    Come!

    Your servant and a slave of Christ,

    tammy

  • LucidChimp
    LucidChimp

    Can someone/thing have "will" without a "mind"? I don't think so (I don't expect you to answer that btw, you said you don't know... I'm just thinking while I type).

    "You two ever see the movie, the Neverending story? Remember the great Nothing (I think that is what it was called) and its agent, that wolf thing."

    See it? I lived it, I saw the damn thing so many times I still dream about gmork (wolf dude) from time to time.

    But if what you're saying is true - shouldn't we be worried about Death rather than Satan? If Death is the Devil's bossman and he has his own purpose? Sounds like the Devil is just Robin to Death's Batman.

    "and as always, look to Christ for the Truth. Not me"

    Tyvm, but no. You have a better response rate when it comes to answering.

  • zound
    zound

    Thanks for the answer. I don't really know what to say in response to death has a will and possibly a mind...

  • Band on the Run
    Band on the Run

    I am thinking of the Ingmar Bergman film..with the Mary and Joseph figure in the cart, trying to outrun Death. I'm sorry I can't recall the title.

    This is way too much for me. No more bait. This is bonkers. It always has been and always will. There is no scriptural consistency. It become so Tammy and not Christ.

  • adamah
    adamah

    Someone's been watching too much Ingmar Bergman (Seventh Seal):

    EDIT: LOL, BOTR. Same thought....

    (I was thinking of 7th Seal, but I think the movie you're thinking of is Wild Strawberries?)

  • Band on the Run
    Band on the Run

    Thank you. Seventh Seal. Spooky.

  • zound
    zound

    Do you have any other source for your assertion tammy, or is it just from personal revelation?

  • Twitch
    Twitch

    :)

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