Oklahoma beheading - Islam is a disease

by Simon 1524 Replies latest members adult

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  cofty

  Imagine a different forum was having a similar conversation about JWs.

  Some nice liberal posters opined that they know JWs who don't shun their disfellowshipped family. Another posits that they know a JW who secretly allowed their child a blood transfusion. Many posters have JW neighbours and colleagues who they like. Others know JWs who party and drink just like normal people.

  One person quotes offical statements from the WT indicating that issues like blood and shunning are entirely the personal decision of individual JWs as guided by their conscience..

  The posters who are saying that JWs are a dangerous cult, and that every JW who is not a "lapsed" one, is a religious extremist is branded by the others as a hateful bogot.

  Who could these people go to for an honest perspective? How about you and I? We know the reality behind the official bullshit and we understand the big picture.

  Why don't we all do the same thing with Islam? Ask those who know best.

  May I recommend Ayaan Hirsi Ali...

  ...
• 

  3rdgen

  Cofty, On page 56 of this thread Poopsiecakes (yes, she can be serious) and I were making a similar point. As a "moderate" JW I was not only willing to die for my God but prepared to let my child die as well. How far would a Zealous JW go if instructed directly by the GB to think, say, and DO a repugnant thing. Something that (forgot the direct quote but paraphrasing) would "not make sense from a human standpoint". To me, religious tenents are like ordering Chinese take out. We all tend to take one from column A , 2 from B etc. One thing for sure, it's harder to get if it's not ON the menu. The Posts about what's on the Islam dinner table as written on the Koran menu should make us wonder about the resturaunt.
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  Simon

  Religious tenets as a Chinese menu is a great analogy and a very eloquent distillation of the issue - the options need to be taken off the menu completely.
• 

  lisaBObeesa

  Imagine a different forum was having a similar conversation about JWs.

  Some nice liberal posters opined that they know JWs who don't shun their disfellowshipped family. Another posits that they know a JW who secretly allowed their child a blood transfusion. Many posters have JW neighbours and colleagues who they like. Others know JWs who party and drink just like normal people.

  Imagine a different forum was having a similar conversation about Christianity.

  Some posters opined that they know for a fact that Christianity believes in letting children die rather than have blood transfusions and that Christianity requires followers to shun their family because it is commanded in the Bible for them to do so. These posters make these claims based on the beliefs of JWs, who are a small sect of Christianity.

  A second group of posters try to explain that Christianity as a whole doesn't believe these things, only the radical fundamentalist cult JWs believe these things, and that the Bible verses they use are taken out of context.

  The first posters refuse to believe this and call all of Christianity a disease that breaks up families and kills children because after all, all of Christianity uses the Bible and the JWs use the Bible. They then accused the second group of posters of defending Christinity and by extension the killing of children and the breaking up of families.

  Horrified, the second group tried to explain that no, they hate the killing of children and the breaking up of families! But that is not what most Christians believe!

  The first group then quoted the Bible verses used by JWs to prove that Christinity teaches shunning your family and letting your children die and called the second group a bunch of liberal PC democratic zealot dunder-heads who are trying to hide the truth about the disease of Christianity.
• 

  Simon

  Lisa: for your comparison to work the rest of Christianity would need to refuse to criticise the teachings of the JWs and just condemn the deaths, not the beliefs. Also, there would be sizeable numbers of Christians voicing their agreement of the beliefs.

  Is that happening?

  It's about the followers and the religion, not the people discussing them!
• 

  tootired2care

  Cofty, great video. This woman was raised as a muslim, and has lived in the netherlands, and has experienced both worlds. Her compare and contrast, of the Qua'ran versus constitution, and the hereafter versus life on earth and how that outlook affects Muslim's really shows at deeper level just how dangerous an incompatible this "philosophy of death" is.

  "It was, ironically Osama Bin Laden who freed me..After 9/11, I found it impossible to ignore his claims that the murderous destruction of innocent (if infidel) lives is consistant with the Qu'ran. I looked in the Qu'ran and found it to be so. To me this meant I could no longer be a Muslim. In fact I had realized then that I had not been a Muslim for a long time." - Ayaan Hirsi Ali.
• 

  poopsiecakes

  Poopsiecakes (yes, she can be serious)

  *smacks 3rdgen*

  This whole topic is very interesting to me because a couple of years ago, I would have been among those who feel that it's too harsh to speak out against an entire religion based on some extremist views. What I've learned through conversations and observing a number of people I work with however, is that even the "assimiliated moderates" are extremist in most aspects of their faith. It's the way they've been trained to think and see the world around them. Despite the fact that they are a lot of fun, great to talk to, the women are affectionate with me and quite generous, it's an 'us vs them' culture. As a prime example, they only marry other Muslims or somebody has to convert (and it won't be the Muslim). Sound familiar? It's a sad by product of brainwashing and yes, they're as brainwashed as your average workaday JW or Morman or Amish etc ad nauseum...
• 

  lisaBObeesa

  It is a good video....very interesting. Have not seeen it all yet, but I will watch it all.

  It should also be noted, though, that the Islam she defected from was the extreme fundamentalist Saudi Arabian flavor of Islam.

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayaan_Hirsi_Ali

  Saudi Arabia was funding religious education in numerous countries and its religious views were becoming influential among many Muslims. A charismatic religious teacher, trained under this aegis, joined Hirsi Ali's school. She inspired the teenaged Ayaan, as well as some fellow students, to adopt the more rigorous Saudi Arabian interpretations of Islam, as opposed to the more relaxed versions then current in Somalia and Kenya.
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  tootired2care

  It should also be noted, though, that the Islam she defected from was the extreme fundamentalist Saudi Arabian flavor of Islam.

  It should also be noted that she didn't join the "moderate" muslims in the west and she became an atheist.

  
• 

  Berengaria

  Would you critisize the Catholics for handling snakes? The JW's for being against birth control? Episcopalians for disfellowhipping? These are all things done by Christian groups with support from scripture. But not all Christians do all these things, or interpret those scriptures in the same way.