Are the MEN apostates more imp. than the WOMEN?

by LDH 119 Replies latest jw friends

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  LDH

  People please don't jump to any conclusions. I am NOT referring to the important project that is ongoing right now!!!!

  (Of which I am a part.)

  I am referring to an overall pattern whereby in the past year I have received emails (after requesting help) such as: Thanks but no thanks, I only work with so and so. (always a male.) Each of these people have had VERY VALID REASONS for wanting to protect their source.....but in the end, I don't get what *I* need to get the job done. In the end, it's the pattern that's bothersome, not the individual incidents.

  Now, I've assisted more people in more ways than I care to identify. So pardon me if my attitude is a little off on this subject, I literally was up all night unable to sleep so my mood is not the best.

  Of note, the help I've requested I've always said....I don't care who your source is if they don't want themselves revealed....send me the shit anonymously to my home address....but I need some info ASAP.

  It's almost like ......GASP....... Mad Apostate was right. There is a clique. Only it's gender based.

  At first I took it personally (BIG MISTAKE) now I realize it is just an ingrained attitude.Hey, we weren't good enough to be on the inside as JW, so apparently nothing has changed all that much.

  I really liked the tone of the thread until IW started talking that stupid "We need the men to fight" shit. She must be from the generation that doesn't pump her own gas, because 'it's a man's job.'

  One, are you referring to "Danni?" That is the only 'lady' I was aware of that offered to help.

  Lisa
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  LDH

  Kis,

  Thanks for your words. Again, I have to say, it is not the individuals/incidents that I am referring to---it is the overall pattern.

  And, I agree. I have been invited to join several 'apostate groups,' and most I have not joined....but I've always provided a reason. I.e., I'm not into Jesus, thank you very much.

  Just last week I was invited to join two 'top secret groups.' My response? "You know who I am, but who are you?"

  So it's not that I'm feeling left out etc etc. It just came to me when I read IW's dumbass remarks...perhaps there is a reason women will never know battle. The men think they are just too delicate, maybe.

  I wonder did anyone let Joan of Arc know that?

  Lisa
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  Kismet

  As much as I hate to quote the Society, "We are making a difference one person at a time."

  I think of the work Lady Lee is doing to help abuse victims..phenomenal!!! Yet is she tearing down the Tower? Not really but she is helping people. So too Lisa, you have helped a lot of individuals. At least in my opinion that is far more praiseworthy than massive attempts to shake the monolith.

  I know a lot of women (men too) from these boards that are making a difference one person at a time. These efforts are not the ones that gets the headlines. Dateline will never be tempted to do a show about how Mr. or Ms. JWD provided information and support to Mr & Mrs. thinking of leaving (Didn't those names from the drama crack you up??) But it is making a dent. The numbers of JW's has become stagnant and the Society is noticing. Corroding the numbers is an effective weapon against the Society.

  I am not trying to deter larger efforts but these larger efforts should not be viewed as more important than an individual's efforts to help one or two people.

  I am sorry that there has been this negative trend from people towards you. Please don't let it discourage you from helping others (I know that it won't). Thanks for your efforts Lisa

  Kismet
• 

  larc

  lisa, What I first wrote and what IW could be viewed as stereotypes. I consider them stereotypes if someone takes a characteristic that is more prevailent in one group and say that characteristic applies to all in the group. I don't mean to take that position. I do believe that a higher percent of men are aggressive and analytical than womem. That does not mean there aren't women who are aggressive and/or analytical. Certainly, there are many such women. Now, regarding your request for information, I don't remember the nature of your request. If I had information, I would have responded. Now, I left the religion at a young age, many years ago, so, I don't fit the stereotype of a man, who is "in the know." At any rate, I think you raising these issues is a good thing. Sometimes you have to yell at men to get their attention. We can be pretty dense, at times. (How's that for a stereotype.)
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  LDH1

  Kis,

  Once again I thank you for your kind words.

  "An answer, when mild, turns away rage."

  LMAO!
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  LDH1

  Women who defend their views passionately in discussion are sometimes told - yes here on this DB - to take their Midol.

  Just saw this, and NO I am not on the rag.

  Lisa
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  IslandWoman

  Lisa,

  I really liked the tone of the thread until IW started talking that stupid "We need the men to fight" shit. She must be from the generation that doesn't pump her own gas, because 'it's a man's job.'

  LOL, I'll let your jab stand on its own merits with no additional comment from me.

  War must be fought in a practical way, using the best resources available. Male xJWs, especially those who were exposed to the inside of the Org., have an invaluable insight one which most women did not have. That coupled with their at times insatiable need to "get back at the Org." makes them more "important" (your term by the way) in the sense of being able and willing to take the lead. The Watchtower is run by men, IMO it is men who know best how to deal with their own kind.

  It's not a matter of intellect, it is fighting fire with fire. ( At times though that "fire" is too often used on this board against newly emerging JW posters that, IMO, is a mistake.)

  If men are good at tearing down a human structure, women are good at restructuring. IMO, that is our strength. Women are many times better builders of human structures because we have the ability to see beyond the obvious in human relations. Men make social progress by passing laws, women prefer to make progress by helping people to improve their life and change it for the better.

  If women had been allowed to have an equal share in governing I believe the world today would be a better place.

  (disclaimer: the terms "men" and "women" are to be understood in a very general sense, certainly there are many exceptions to every generality. )

  IW
• 

  Pathofthorns

  I wouldn't concede the women here are any less aggressive against the WT. There are several social groups represented by large numbers of women that aggressively promote their cause and carry out their agenda.

  I do see a tendancy to put more weight to some and to look to established cliques for some sort of "direction". That these inner circles exist among exJWs is likely to be distasteful but unfortunately is a natural progression of things imo. That these inner circles are largely directed by men also could be frustrating by those who were hoping for a more diverse mix after the WT.

  I think that women are empowered to do as they will but it remains up to them to choose to use those freedoms that are there. For everyone wishing more women were more "important", many also seem to be content with things as they are. Maybe old attitudes just die hard.

  Even the Society has remarked that women are more trustworthy in the public eye. Why they have not used women as representatives to the media like they had planned I do not know. But I would love to see more exJW women acting as spokespersons for children's issues and blood issues etc.

  I still smile at Lisa's post where she was having an argument or something with someone and just without hessitation phoned Brooklyn for the straight goods. That kind of thing is so cool because you know half of us guys that never ask for directions are like "well we just can't call Brooklyn"... That would be just too obvious.

  Path
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  LDH

  IW,

  OK now those comments of yours, I'll agree with. Thanks for explaining.

  Path, you know I am the direct type. I use my real name, real pic, etc. I am not the type to reveal confidential info (and with all I know about posters on this board I think that speaks for itself.)

  I am not the back down type. Yes, I call Brooklyn frequently just to let them know what assholes I think they are.For instance, I called this morning and ripped them a new one about the Yoga article in the August 1, 2002 Awake. I think they must have Caller ID because I am always getting the same person lately, LOL.

  I will agree that this is a war. War calls for different people of different skills.

  And I agree with Path who states that some women can be just as aggressive as the men.

  Now, I don't want this taken out of context because some here seem to think this involves a current large project. ON THE CONTRARY I'm glad it's being done because I have, er, projects that need seeing to as well. This does NOT invole ALAN and I would be pissed if someone assumed it did.

  Thank you ALL for your thoughts.

  Lisa
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  IslandWoman

  Lisa,

  IW,

  OK now those comments of yours, I'll agree with. Thanks for explaining.

  Thank you.

  We may not be as far apart as it seems. Just different people with different experiences but above all else we are women, fellow xJWs, just plain people. How I long for the day when women can be regarded as just people, equal with men but also able to just be ourselves without apology or explanation.

  Let your light shine!!

  IW