Patio, I consider you one of the women here who is both analytical and interpersonal. I have read about your own journey of discovery regarding the dinasours, and the history of the Summarian precusors of Bible stories. You are one smart cookie, just like your sister. Must be a genetic thing.
Are the MEN apostates more imp. than the WOMEN?
by LDH 119 Replies latest jw friends
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LDH
You know what? I was just thinking of Amazing's posts.
He seems to walk the line between analytical and heart-stirring. Maybe he has found a balance that works for him.
MANY enjoy his stories.
JT also walks the fence between telling us about the changing dogma, and then relating how it affected the lives of those in the Borg. Perhaps it is possible to strike a delicate balance!
As far as BeaconXJW, I had forgotten about it!
Thanks so much for all of you who have added to the list of "important people." These are people whose work has helped people see the Borg for what it is, be they male or female.
Lisa
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JT
everyones post is so on time for this issue-
i have rarely seen conversations here take on a "Me Tarzan you Jane" tone
as men and women we are able to share ideas, thoughts ,concerns and provide help to one another that helps all of us deal with our lives at this point.
I have spoken to on the phone about 50-50 of men and women and i know for myself i hang up with a renewed sense of purpose and drive to deal with the losses i have personally felt due to wt
I only hope that by post and phone conversations i have left others with a feeling of "I'm going to be Alright"
sometime we all can get a little preachy , but i have found few who really have it in their mind not to help folks here.
this place is like a lake in the middle of the desert.
many of our nonjw family and friends will never be able to grasp the sheer depth and intensity that this religion has impacted out lives.
only among those who have walked the walk and talked the talk really understand how others feel.'
Yes in wt we continued to tell our women to be in subjection and the kicker was we taught our women to be in subjection to any male .
it is sad to think that the "Penis" was raised almost to the level of being Divine-
how sad
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joeshmoe
I do think and hope that I've been some encouragement here. I'd hate to think it was more wasted time.
LDH,
I certainly hope (and I do think) you were kidding! I, and I know I can't speak for everyone, but I personally have found the board extraordinarily encouraging and many of your posts in particular.
I'm certainly not the deepest person (intellectually or emotionally) in the world, but even I can appreciate the amount of emotional support on the board -- that's frankly the reason I come.
I've been visiting the board for over a month now, and I've dropped by the bible research section a total of 0 times. Of course, that's just me. But doctrines like DFing, Blood, and 1914 to name a few were the reason I left. I've made my peace with much of that and don't revisit it.
But believe it or not, I really didn't give an overwhelming amount of thought to how I would deal with healing and moving on when I walked away. Just assumed it would automatically happen. Thank god this board and it's contributors was here and that I found it when I did. I'm still whacked, but I AM healing, and I just have to believe that, without the support, I'd be crushed by the enormity of what I -- and all of you -- have been through.
I was naive, sure, but if you think you've "wasted time" or haven't been an encouragement here, you're even more naive than me!!
As to the issue at hand,
I think much of the doctrinal issues are tackled by men for a simple reason that has already been stated elsewhere on the thread -- they have access to, and deal with, the 'nuts-and-bolts' of the org. -- and that behind the scenes stuff going on in the org is handled by men after all! And with the org's strong male dominant structure, men just have more of the goods on the org.
Frankly, if it was just a matter of courage and intelligence, the ratios would probably be reversed.
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joeshmoe
this place is like a lake in the middle of the desert.
Amen brother!
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LDH
Well, this thread is FLYING tonight! I had just planned to ask the question and come back tomorrow. So much for that.
Maybe I will run out of posts soon, LOL.
Joe, thank you very much. I remember when I got an email from someone who 'met' me on Witnet. He told me that my posts were the biggest reason he started examining his faith and eventually left. I was blown away.
So, I know that we can appreciate information and assitance that someone brings to the table, no matter their gender.
I'm hoping by switching from being subtly argumentative about the Borg to outright confrontational about changing doctrine issues, I will be able to force a change.
Like Obie, I can admit I'm obsessed with the familial damage this cult has done. I think it was naive of me to expect that I would be able to reverse 35 years of brainwashing by dropping seeds every now and then. I really would prefer to walk away and never mention the name JW again. But because this cult continues to affect my life on a daily basis, I've not been able to do that.
When I called my aunt yesterday to wish my condolences, she said,"Well I wouldn't be talking to you but out of respect for your parents."
I said, "Hey don't do me any favors. You ain't the first family member to shun me and you won't be the last. Whatever makes you happy."
I think I shocked her because she said, "We don't shun" and I burst out laughing. I said, "Hey whatever name you wanna give it, do what makes you feel right. For me, I no longer confuse the concept of God with 12 dried up old geezers in Brooklyn."
CLICK.
But I feel better, cause I said what I felt instead of mollycoddling her.
The truth is, I felt sad for her. The day after her husband died and she can't even receive condolences from me because I'm df'd.
Yes, I think it's important to evaluate whether you're winning the battle every now and again, and if not, time to switch ammo.
Lisa
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larc
Lisa, I might run out of posts myself, so I hope this goes through. Your account of your conversation with your aunt really made me sad, brings back a lot of memories of experiences that my wife and I have had. I can't tell you if the change of ammo will work, but you have to give it your best shot. Thank you so much, for a most wonderful thread that you have created. This is the kind of thread that represents our mission and common purpose.
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Reborn2002
JT-
Your post touched my heart. You took the words right out of my mouth on so many levels.
As men and women we are able to share ideas, thoughts, concerns and provide help to one another that helps all of us deal with your lives at this point.
this place is like a lake in the middle of the desert.
I agree wholeheartedly. The JW.com forum has provided a place for those who have been traumatized or victimized by the Watchtower Society and Jehovah's Witnesses to express their grief, to share experiences, and to heal.
many of our nonjw family and friends will never be able to grasp the sheer depth and intensity that this religion has impacted our lives
Another true statement. While someone who has not experienced involvement with the Jehovah's Witness cult can sympathize, unless they have lived in it themselves, they can never fully understand.
joeshmoe said:
As to the issue at hand,
I think much of the doctrinal issues are tackled by men for a simple reason that has already been stated elsewhere on this thread -- they have access to, and deal with, the 'nuts-and-bolts' of the org. -- and that behind the scenes stuff going on in the org is handled by men after all! And with the org's strong male dominant structure, men just have more of the goods on the org.
I concur.
How many women are currently serving on the Governing Body?
How many women currently serve as elders and have the authority to hold a judicial committee and determine the fate of a fellow member?
How many women have authorized access to the secret manuals provided to the "sheperds" of the congregation?
How many women are in positions of authority period?
None.
If a woman is not privy to such information, she cannot expose the Watchtower organization for the corrupt, hypocritical entity that it is with those damning documents.
However, the female posters here are JUST as important as any male. Their personal experiences within the Watchtower are invaluable to aiding others to make their exit.
The Jehovah's Witnesses label the women as a "Large Army"
They were right. The only thing they do not realize is this "Large Army" is forming into position against them, and will one day prove crucial in the organization's demise.
Edited by - Reborn2002 on 22 June 2002 1:37:47
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patio34
Hey Larc, Thanks for the kind words for Waiting and me. This is such an interesting and lively thread. There's a lot to think about. As Waiting and others have noted, there are quite a few sites run by women such as Shauna's Place and Beacon.
Pat
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joeshmoe
LDH,
well, hmm. I guess I'm at the very beginning of a journey you've been on for a long time, so I don't feel I can say much. But i will say this. No matter how balanced and reasonable your arguments are, if they are delivered in an extreme style, that's all most people will see. I don't think a confrontational style wins any converts in this.
Of course, I can't see things from your perspective and I may be flat wrong in your case. If honey ain't workin' maybe you do gotta break out the Louisville Slugger!!