Was Russell a freemason and an adventist?

by wholewheat 80 Replies latest jw friends

  • Hmmm
    Hmmm

    I heard this story from someone who knows someone whose great-great aunt saw this event actually take place.

    Russell was walking down the street in Pittsburgh one day in the late 1800s. He passed a large building which a work crew was facing with bricks. The brickwork was completed to a height of about three feet, and the workers were several feet along down the building.

    Russell noticed that one of the bricks had fallen from the top course. He picked up the brick, placed it back in it's proper place, and smushed it into the bed of mortar.

    The foreman saw this and thanked Russell. Russell replied, "No charge." So yes, he was a free mason--at least for a time.

    Now can somebody tell me what the big deal is?

    Hmmm

  • Dutchie
    Dutchie

    "Ich bin ein Berliner" translates to "I am a jelly donut."

  • RR
    RR
    Maybe you woud like to comment on:

    Sure, why not.

    1. Russell's portrayal that he "just happened" to walk into Jonas Wendell's service in 1868-9.

    What's to tell? He closed up shop and took a walk and "stumbled" upon them. In those early years, Advent Christians didn't own their own churches, they met in private homes, rented hall, etc.

    2. Russell's statement that the SAs led him to "no truths" (technically correct).

    I would probably agree, Russell was influenced by various groups. You know, it's very difficult to determine what was Adventist and what wasn't. In those, being ADventist simply meant you believd in the imminent return of Christ, so there were baptist adventist, congregational adventist, etc, William Miller lived and dioed a Baptist. But many of those in the various denominations were already debating such isues as trinity, hellfire, immortal soul, the kingdom, the Church, etc. Russell grew up in the middle of these heated debates and was no doubt influenced by some of these. The Bible study group he was a part of was no doubt made up of various believers.

    3. Russell's failure in his later years to fully and truthfully explain his relationship with Stetson and Storrs.

    In later years, he does say that he was "indebted to them." Of all the advent preachers, The two George's were no doubt the most influential in his life. Storrs through the pages of "The Bible Examiner" and Stetson via personal contact, they were practically neighbors.

    4. A.H. Macmillian's obvious lack of understanding of the real historical situation despite his misconception that CTR had filled him in sufficiently to write regarding such, including CTR misleading AHM to the point that AHM thouht that CTR had published "OBJECT" in 1873.

    There was no misleading here. Russell never claimed the booklet was written in 1873. I personally believe this was a ply by the Society to make Russell look like some sort of prophet, that he predicted the Lord's return in 1874. Truth is, all advertisements for the booklet are in and around the mid 1870s. A look at past Watchtower history reflect this view, where they claim Russell predicted the presence. However, when they were caught in this lie, their revised their index book to reflect the correct date 1877.

    Additionally, was it not Storrs that baptized the whole Russell clan in 1874, which was coincidentally the year that the SAs were proclaiming to be "another" end-time? (CTR later denied that he had ever put any belief in 1873-4, and even tried to make it appear that his first concern with end-times was during his later association with Barbour. Just like CTR denied believing in 1878, but AHM let the cat out of the bag by publishing a statement by CTR that pretty much indicates that CTR was part of that failure also.)

    We haven't been able to find who actually baptized them. I am under the opinion that it was Stetson, NOT Storrs. Not sure where you driving at. With the "end-times." You're going to have to give me references. The book "Three Worlds" was authored by Barbour, NOT Russell, Russell only financed it. It had some predictions for 1878 and 1914. After the 1878 failed [it no doubt was accepted by Russell] Barbour rejected chronology and other areas, which caused the split, Russell forming the Zion's Watch Tower. Russell accepted both 1874 and 1878, as well as 1914. I wouldn't trust what AHM says. It has ben rumored that the final draft of his book didn't even resembled what he actually wrote. AHM was a company "yes" man, which is how he survived as a relic of the old days. Unlike VanAmburgh he fell out of graces with Rutherford early on, but swallowed his pride and went along with the program. he was repentant for what he did, but stayed as he was old.

  • Nathan Natas
    Nathan Natas

    Hi Ballistic,

    Since Charles Taze Russell never heard his followers called "JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES" it strains credibility to think that the JW name somehow demonstrates a Masonic or Adventist link... but I'll play. Here's a list of the possible anagrams that include the word "seventh":

    SEVENTH A JEWISH SOS SEVENTH A HISSES JOW SEVENTH A SHE SIS JOW SEVENTH A HES SIS JOW SEVENTH A SHES SI JOW SEVENTH A SHES IS JOW SEVENTH A HESS SI JOW SEVENTH A HESS IS JOW SEVENTH A SHEW I JOSS SEVENTH A HEWS I JOSS SEVENTH A HEW SI JOSS SEVENTH A HEW IS JOSS SEVENTH A WISES JOSH SEVENTH A WEISS JOSH SEVENTH A JOES SWISH SEVENTH A JOSE SWISH SEVENTH A JESS HI SOW SEVENTH A JESS HIS OW SEVENTH A JESS WHOS I SEVENTH A JESS SHOW I SEVENTH A JESS HOWS I SEVENTH A JESS HOW SI SEVENTH A JESS HOW IS SEVENTH A JESS WHO SI SEVENTH A JESS WHO IS SEVENTH A JEWS HI SOS SEVENTH A JEWS HIS SO SEVENTH A JEWS OH SIS SEVENTH A JEWS HO SIS SEVENTH A JEWS OHS SI SEVENTH A JEWS OHS IS SEVENTH A JEWS SHO SI SEVENTH A JEWS SHO IS SEVENTH A JEW HIS SOS SEVENTH A JEW HISS SO SEVENTH A JEW OHS SIS SEVENTH A JEW SHO SIS SEVENTH A SSE HIS JOW SEVENTH A SEWS SHOJI SEVENTH A SEWS JOSH I SEVENTH A SEW HI JOSS SEVENTH A SEW JOSH SI SEVENTH A SEW JOSH IS SEVENTH A WE HIS JOSS SEVENTH A WE JOSH SIS SEVENTH SHEA SIS JOW SEVENTH ASHES SI JOW SEVENTH ASHES IS JOW SEVENTH SASHES I JOW SEVENTH SEA HISS JOW SEVENTH SEAS HIS JOW SEVENTH ASSES HI JOW SEVENTH AWE HIS JOSS SEVENTH AWE JOSH SIS SEVENTH HA WEIS JOSS SEVENTH HA WISE JOSS SEVENTH HA JOE SWISS SEVENTH HA JESS I SOW SEVENTH HA JESS SI OW SEVENTH HA JESS IS OW SEVENTH HA JEWS I SOS SEVENTH HA JEWS SI SO SEVENTH HA JEWS IS SO SEVENTH HA JEW SI SOS SEVENTH HA JEW IS SOS SEVENTH HA JEW SIS SO SEVENTH HA SSE SI JOW SEVENTH HA SSE IS JOW SEVENTH HA SEW I JOSS SEVENTH HA WE SI JOSS SEVENTH HA WE IS JOSS SEVENTH AH WEIS JOSS SEVENTH AH WISE JOSS SEVENTH AH JOE SWISS SEVENTH AH JESS I SOW SEVENTH AH JESS SI OW SEVENTH AH JESS IS OW SEVENTH AH JEWS I SOS SEVENTH AH JEWS SI SO SEVENTH AH JEWS IS SO SEVENTH AH JEW SI SOS SEVENTH AH JEW IS SOS SEVENTH AH JEW SIS SO SEVENTH AH SSE SI JOW SEVENTH AH SSE IS JOW SEVENTH AH SEW I JOSS SEVENTH AH WE SI JOSS SEVENTH AH WE IS JOSS SEVENTH JOSIAH SEWS SEVENTH AHO JEWS SIS SEVENTH WHOA JESS SI SEVENTH WHOA JESS IS SEVENTH HAS WEI JOSS SEVENTH HAS JESS I OW SEVENTH HAS JEWS I SO SEVENTH HAS JEW I SOS SEVENTH HAS JEW SI SO SEVENTH HAS JEW IS SO SEVENTH HAS SSE I JOW SEVENTH HAS WE I JOSS SEVENTH ASH WEI JOSS SEVENTH ASH JESS I OW SEVENTH ASH JEWS I SO SEVENTH ASH JEW I SOS SEVENTH ASH JEW SI SO SEVENTH ASH JEW IS SO SEVENTH ASH SSE I JOW SEVENTH ASH WE I JOSS SEVENTH SASH SIE JOW SEVENTH SASH SEI JOW SEVENTH SASH JEW I SO SEVENTH SWASH JOE SI SEVENTH SWASH JOE IS SEVENTH SWASH JOES I SEVENTH SWASH JOSE I SEVENTH SHAW IE JOSS SEVENTH SHAW JOE SIS SEVENTH SHAW JOES SI SEVENTH SHAW JOES IS SEVENTH SHAW JOSE SI SEVENTH SHAW JOSE IS SEVENTH WASH IE JOSS SEVENTH WASH JOE SIS SEVENTH WASH JOES SI SEVENTH WASH JOES IS SEVENTH WASH JOSE SI SEVENTH WASH JOSE IS SEVENTH WAH SIE JOSS SEVENTH WAH SEI JOSS SEVENTH WAH JOES SIS SEVENTH WAH JOSE SIS SEVENTH WAH JESS I SO SEVENTH HAW SIE JOSS SEVENTH HAW SEI JOSS SEVENTH HAW JOES SIS SEVENTH HAW JOSE SIS SEVENTH HAW JESS I SO SEVENTH AI SHEW JOSS SEVENTH AI HEWS JOSS SEVENTH AI JESS WHOS SEVENTH AI JESS SHOW SEVENTH AI JESS HOWS SEVENTH AI SEWS JOSH SEVENTH JAI SHES SOW SEVENTH JAI HESS SOW SEVENTH JAI SHEW SOS SEVENTH JAI HEWS SOS SEVENTH JAI SSE WHOS SEVENTH JAI SSE SHOW SEVENTH JAI SSE HOWS SEVENTH JAI SEWS OHS SEVENTH JAI SEWS SHO SEVENTH JAWS EH I SOS SEVENTH JAWS EH SI SO SEVENTH JAWS EH IS SO SEVENTH JAWS HE I SOS SEVENTH JAWS HE SI SO SEVENTH JAWS HE IS SO SEVENTH JAWS HIE SOS SEVENTH JAWS HOE SIS SEVENTH JAWS HOSE SI SEVENTH JAWS HOSE IS SEVENTH JAWS HOES SI SEVENTH JAWS HOES IS SEVENTH JAWS SHOE SI SEVENTH JAWS SHOE IS SEVENTH JAWS HOSES I SEVENTH JAWS SHOES I SEVENTH JAWS SHE I SO SEVENTH JAWS HES I SO SEVENTH JAWS SIE OHS SEVENTH JAWS SIE SHO SEVENTH JAWS SEI OHS SEVENTH JAWS SEI SHO SEVENTH JAWS SSE HOI SEVENTH JAWS SSE OH I SEVENTH JAWS SSE HO I SEVENTH JAW EH SI SOS SEVENTH JAW EH IS SOS SEVENTH JAW EH SIS SO SEVENTH JAW HE SI SOS SEVENTH JAW HE IS SOS SEVENTH JAW HE SIS SO SEVENTH JAW SHIES SO SEVENTH JAW HOSE SIS SEVENTH JAW HOES SIS SEVENTH JAW SHOE SIS SEVENTH JAW HOSES SI SEVENTH JAW HOSES IS SEVENTH JAW SHOES SI SEVENTH JAW SHOES IS SEVENTH JAW SHE I SOS SEVENTH JAW SHE SI SO SEVENTH JAW SHE IS SO SEVENTH JAW HES I SOS SEVENTH JAW HES SI SO SEVENTH JAW HES IS SO SEVENTH JAW SHES I SO SEVENTH JAW HESS I SO SEVENTH JAW SSE HI SO SEVENTH JAW SSE OH SI SEVENTH JAW SSE OH IS SEVENTH JAW SSE HO SI SEVENTH JAW SSE HO IS SEVENTH JAW SSE OHS I SEVENTH JAW SSE SHO I SEVENTH SAO JEWS HIS SEVENTH SAO JEW HISS SEVENTH AS EH SIS JOW SEVENTH AS HE SIS JOW SEVENTH AS JEWISH SO SEVENTH AS SHIES JOW SEVENTH AS SHE SI JOW SEVENTH AS SHE IS JOW SEVENTH AS HES SI JOW SEVENTH AS HES IS JOW SEVENTH AS SHES I JOW SEVENTH AS HESS I JOW SEVENTH AS HEW I JOSS SEVENTH AS WEIS JOSH SEVENTH AS WISE JOSH SEVENTH AS JOE SWISH SEVENTH AS JOES WISH SEVENTH AS JOSE WISH SEVENTH AS JESS HI OW SEVENTH AS JESS HOW I SEVENTH AS JESS WHO I SEVENTH AS JEWS HI SO SEVENTH AS JEWS OH SI SEVENTH AS JEWS OH IS SEVENTH AS JEWS HO SI SEVENTH AS JEWS HO IS SEVENTH AS JEWS OHS I SEVENTH AS JEWS SHO I SEVENTH AS JEW HI SOS SEVENTH AS JEW HIS SO SEVENTH AS JEW OH SIS SEVENTH AS JEW HO SIS SEVENTH AS JEW OHS SI SEVENTH AS JEW OHS IS SEVENTH AS JEW SHO SI SEVENTH AS JEW SHO IS SEVENTH AS SSE HI JOW SEVENTH AS SEW SHOJI SEVENTH AS SEW JOSH I SEVENTH AS WE HI JOSS SEVENTH AS WE JOSH SI SEVENTH AS WE JOSH IS SEVENTH ASS EH SI JOW SEVENTH ASS EH IS JOW SEVENTH ASS HE SI JOW SEVENTH ASS HE IS JOW SEVENTH ASS SHE I JOW SEVENTH ASS HES I JOW SEVENTH ASS WEI JOSH SEVENTH ASS JOE WISH SEVENTH ASS JEWS HOI SEVENTH ASS JEWS OH I SEVENTH ASS JEWS HO I SEVENTH ASS JEW HI SO SEVENTH ASS JEW OH SI SEVENTH ASS JEW OH IS SEVENTH ASS JEW HO SI SEVENTH ASS JEW HO IS SEVENTH ASS JEW OHS I SEVENTH ASS JEW SHO I SEVENTH ASS WE SHOJI SEVENTH ASS WE JOSH I SEVENTH ASSS EH I JOW SEVENTH ASSS HE I JOW SEVENTH ASSS HIE JOW SEVENTH ASSS JEW HOI SEVENTH ASSS JEW OH I SEVENTH ASSS JEW HO I SEVENTH SASS EH I JOW SEVENTH SASS HE I JOW SEVENTH SASS HIE JOW SEVENTH SASS JEW HOI SEVENTH SASS JEW OH I SEVENTH SASS JEW HO I SEVENTH SAWS IE JOSH SEVENTH SAWS JOE HIS SEVENTH SAWS JOES HI SEVENTH SAWS JOSE HI SEVENTH SAW EH I JOSS SEVENTH SAW HE I JOSS SEVENTH SAW HIE JOSS SEVENTH SAW JOSHES I SEVENTH SAW SIE JOSH SEVENTH SAW SEI JOSH SEVENTH SAW JOE HISS SEVENTH SAW JOES HIS SEVENTH SAW JOSE HIS SEVENTH SAW JESS HOI SEVENTH SAW JESS OH I SEVENTH SAW JESS HO I SEVENTH WAS EH I JOSS SEVENTH WAS HE I JOSS SEVENTH WAS HIE JOSS SEVENTH WAS JOSHES I SEVENTH WAS SIE JOSH SEVENTH WAS SEI JOSH SEVENTH WAS JOE HISS SEVENTH WAS JOES HIS SEVENTH WAS JOSE HIS SEVENTH WAS JESS HOI SEVENTH WAS JESS OH I SEVENTH WAS JESS HO I

    Edited by - Nathan Natas on 29 June 2002 20:10:58

    Edited by - Nathan Natas on 29 June 2002 20:11:43

  • RR
    RR
    Russell was speaking figuratively, which is possible in the context of the talk.

    Even if he wasn't a Mason, from his comments it is clear he had friends who were.

    Bingo, I think you hit the nail on the head. If people would take the time to read the entire sermon, they would see that Russell was taking Masonic imagery and twisting it give a witness. Since this convention was held at a masonic hall and there were no doubt masons in the building, he took advantage of his surroundings and gave a witness in a form that would would understand.

    It should be noted that Russell criticize freemasony and also claimed to never be one and was not familiar with their beliefs. I can send the text of the 1913 sermond to anyone wishing it, so they can read it themselves.

  • ballistic
    ballistic

    Nathan - 2 things:

    first, you must be as sad as me 'cas I already did this at http://wordsmith.org/anagram/index.html !!!

    and secondly, I can't remember the second thing.

  • avengers
    avengers

    Let me summarize.

    In a hall full of Free Masons he calls himself a Free Mason yet he is not one.

    The pyramid close to his grave has the Watchtower engraved in it.

    The Watchtower in the early days reaks of Masonic symbols.

    The Watchtower seals are full of Masonic symbols.

    Yet everyone denies that Russell was a Free Mason.

    Personally I think the Watchtower is just a tool in the hands of the Masonic Brethren.

    All the roads eventually lead to Rome.

    I bet anything that Russell was just a tool in the hands of the Free Masons.

    And I bet anything that the Watchtower in these days is still a tool in their hands.

    Just like the WT in these days uses God's name to get people in their control, so did Russell.

    But ofcourse I could be wrong.

  • ballistic
    ballistic

    Interesting reference to their 'foundation' being Jesus Christ. In actual fact, most of the assumptions the witnesses make are based on their foundation of the Bible and not Christ. This is where things start to go wrong. A key corner stone of their faith is belief in the year 1914 as the start of Christs presence. And yet such cannot be found in the Bible anywhere without contorting and comparing various scriptures and applying math to what can feasibly be inaccurate or simply figurative numbers.

    I find it ironic that the witnesses use as their motif a literal Watchtower whilst having such an incredably unsteady belief system based on foundationalism, what I call 'a house of cards'.

  • RR
    RR
    But ofcourse I could be wrong.

    Yep .... you are! You want so much to see evil in everything they do to justify your means. Forget it. The Society ehas enough skeletons in their closets, you don't have to make things up!

  • plmkrzy
    plmkrzy

    I NOW DECLARE PASTOR DEAD RUSSELL A FREE MASON

    AS WAS HIS MENTOR JESUS CHRIST

    OK It's official now.

    geesh the man IS DEAD.

    He isn't gonna get any deader

    no matter what you call him

    D

    E

    A

    D

    DEAD

    When Avengers dies we can put a pyramid on his grave as a memento of his obsession with freemasons and pointed objects then when his great great nephews and nieces see it they will know there great great uncle Avenger was a freemason who was devoured by a shark

    Why don't you give the mason crap a vacation and do some research on the definition of the word Catholic

    and see what you can do with that?

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