Was Russell a freemason and an adventist?

by wholewheat 80 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  lauralisa

  simwitness,

  I thought of this after reading your question. Two years ago I was still very much "active" in the trooth. At the same time, I was struggling in therapy (I actually moved to another city to engage in a NIMH program specific to survivors of this particular abuse)* to come to terms with hideous stuff that had happened to me as a child, at the hands of my 33 degree mason father and his freakazoid associates. I did a LOT of research and Google searches on things relative to freemasonry and other related iconology - (the few things that I could remember).

  What completely freaked me out was the incredible number of times that 'Jehovah's witnesses' or 'Charles T. Russell' or WTBTS came up during some of these searches; in fact, it led me to H2O and this very discussion board.(It was strange; the first time I pulled this URL up on my computer there was a post discussing the very same things I had been trying to figure out. I thought this was a DB dedicated to people who were just like me! HAAAHHAAAAAHHAA) Simon was very impressive - and still is - in his respect and tolerance for "free speech".

  I learned enough about the WTBTS to get myself outta that tangled mess of obfuscation, but after almost a full year of dedicated research to unravel the mysteries of freemasonry (at least the kind I remembered) I have concluded that it is virtually impossible to get information that is consistent, reliable, helpful, accurate, comprehendable or useful. From wherever one starts, a fractal tree of infinite proportions emerges. It would take a century for a million people to make any reasonable, verifiable conclusions, and even then, it would be suspect.

  I'd say perhaps 98.999% of all freemasons are good people who do community services and belong to a "club" - and the rest are some really sick fucks who wouldn't recognize "normal" even if it became a lesion attached to their brain.

  This is probably more of a reply to your question than you bargained for, but if you're interested, here's one of MANY discussions that have taken place in the past: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=14180&site=3

  Take care, lauralisa

  * PS to any who saw a red flag here - yes, I know.......

  Edited by - lauralisa on 2 July 2002 11:31:51
• 

  professor

  Wholewheat,

  Why did you start this thread? I ask because you don't seem to really care about the answers. You Responded to the first answer and then ignored the other 48 replies.

  Does wholewheat have anything to do with Miracle Wheat? I hope not. That stuff was bunk!
• 

  avengers

  To tell you the truth, I don't care if Russlel was a Free mason, Adventist, Faithful Slave, Jehovah's Witness, Catholic, or whatever else he claims to be.

  To me he's a nutcase who started a nutcase religion.

  Any follower of Russel, defender of him is in my eyes a nutcase of his own.

  The religion he started has produced more nutcases than any other religion I know.

  So goodbye Russell with your Free Masonry, Adventistic capriolas, and Jehovah.

  It's all one big LIE.

  Russell was a liar, Rutherford was a liar, and all their followers,

  and they that defend them.

  my 2 cents.

  Andy
• 

  plmkrzy

  Russell was a liar, Rutherford was a liar, and all their followers,

  and they that defend them.

  my 2 cents.

  Andy

  Well gee when I (for some strange reason) began to read your reply, I really thought you were going to shock me and say something intelligent and god forbid, even expose a tiny bit about what it is that is really driving you. Oh well, at least you didn't over price yourself.

  Whatever Russell was and Rutherford was has absolutely no baring on anyone else but them. There probably isn't anyone left alive that followed Russell and even if there was I shouldnt be ignorant enough thank God, to approach them and call them a liar just because they believed in something. My grandparents were followers of Russell and people don't come any more honest then they were. And they were not masons either. They were Baptist prior to thier introduction to Bible Students.
• 

  wholewheat

  professor,

  Why did I start this thread? To ask a question! Some ex-JWs said that Russell was a Freemason and a memeber of the Adventist Church and I wanted some other ex-JWs input to see if this was really true. I don't know the facts myself and I don't comment because I really don't have anything to contribute.
• 

  ozziepost

  wanted some other ex-JWs input to see if this was really true. I don't know the facts myself and I don't comment because I really don't have anything to contribute.

  Then why ask the question?
• 

  avengers

  (if I've offended anyone I assure you this was not my purpose)

  hey Plmcrazy you are absolutely right.

  Even in these days there are great people in the trooth.

  Some of them I even have considered friends.

  I am not talking about the people that are being deceived, but about those that do the deceiving.

  I am sure that the Governing Body knows what it's doing, purposely.

  I don't think this religion or any are just born out of the goodness of someone's heart.

  There's more going on than just that.

  I'm not a conspiracy nut, but I can surely see facts.

  The only thing I was trying to establish with this Free Mason thing is to show on what grounds the Watchtower is founded.

  Not very stable I would say.

  I want to thank you all the corrections.

  It's nice to know that the Watchtower is founded on Free Masonry, Adventism and what more.

  I see the light.

  Have fun with the discussion.

  Andy.
• 

  willy_think

  my cousin Bobbie thomposn IS DEFINITELY a freemason NOW in the year 2002. outside of his friends who are also masons i can't find any proof he is a mason.
  how, if i can't prove Bobbie is a mason today, could i prove someone who is long dead is a mason? how can i prove anyone is or was a mason? remember statements like "i am a freemason." or being buried under a Masonic head stone or using the language and symbols of the masons is not enough.
• 

  wholewheat

  ozziepost,

  "Why ask the question"?

  To get an answer.
• 

  plmkrzy

  Avengers I'm glad to hear that.

  There is no doubt in my mind that Russell was influenced OR fascinated with freemasons. That much is only obvious. But there is also no doubt in my mind from all of the research I've done that there was a definite barrier built up between Russell and freemasons during the later part of his years running the WT. Russell was fascinated enough to learn more about them but once he became more exposed to the beliefs not only did he site them as just another organized religious control group but eventually managed to convert some into Bible students which is where he gained more knowledge about them.

  Anyone who really wants to know the truth will find it. Anyone who doesntwont.

  The pyramid thing, according to ACTUAL freemasons is the same to a freemason as the SMURF is to the JW. It is an urban legend and nothing more. The monument near his gravesite and why it is there will always be for reasons anybody wants to make up. Some folks just have a real tough time letting go and if they cant find the answer they will just fill in the blanks themselves.

  The money I use to purchase goods with is in fact NOT made by freemasons. But no doubt some poppycock in the future will look at ancient money and come to the conclusion that our currency was designed and produced by freemasons and the entire Country was once run by freemasons because the proof is right there on the money with the words In God We Trust

  And millions will no doubt get in the food line tilt their heads back and beg for more shit.

  I dont know why the pyramid is there, dont really care about it that much but if it was something done by his wishes and not the wishes of his wife or sister or the guy that was pissed at him because Rutherford, a Newbie, took over, then it is there for no other reason then Russell was weird and had some strange ideas and a thing for pyramids. IF he in fact had it put there. People are naturally obsessive creatures. Obviously.

  He had probably many friends who were freemasons and he no doubt was greatly influence by Adventists also. However he was never a freemason himself nor did he hold to the Adventist beliefs either and these ARE the VERY reasons why he pursued an organization of his own. He was not going to be a FOLLOWER himself. That is clearly proven by his actions and by the fact that he DID start a religion of his own. There is absolutely no possible way to ever prove otherwise. No one can deny the existence of the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society. It DOES exist BECAUSE Russell started it. If he had become a freemason then there would be no WTBTS. Is that too simple?

  He didnt like the rules of organized religion so even though it may not have been his intention he did in fact start another religion that broke into pieces after his death and sprouted many more. If you want to get real tech about it then just say to all who believe in the Bible, Adam and Eve are the ancestors of the freemasons. They in fact gave birth to freemasonry and Adventists, and Catholics etc etc

  If he were to have become a freemason he would have had to adhere to the rules of the freemasons and the same would have been true with Adventists and any other religion or cult you would like to throw in. That simply was not an option for Russell according to his history and his character. He no doubt had many friends from other systems who also respected him even with their differences. It was a different time then it is now.

  After this I am going to stay out of the Russell and Rutherford threads. I didnt come here to end up defending Russell or Rutherford. I am against organized religion, always have been. It may not have started out to be organized AND a religion but thats where it ended up. Just like me ending up in a thread defending what Russell was and was not.

  I am not a Russell follower (which incidentally, could now be proven otherwise to anyone willing to believe anything by simply using my posts and cutting and pasting to distort who I am)

  It is irritating to me whenever I see any thing twisted apart, added too, changed, altered, lied about, distorted, rearranged or simply turned into blatant bullshit. I have issues regarding that. I find it rather repulsive and I dont understand how anyone can complain about being lied too in the Borg and willingly swallow shit about everything else after leaving. Doesnt make much sense. It doesnt make ANY sense.

  plum