Was Russell a freemason and an adventist? (page 7)

lv4fer

If he wasn't a freemason, why did he use two of their symbols on his magazines? Also why would he have put those symbols on his gravesite? Seems rather suspicious to me!

plmkrzy

If he wasn't a freemason, why did he use two of their symbols on his magazines?

Also why would he have put those symbols on his gravesite?

LOL or just shake head whatever

As much as I appreciate your efforts in countering these Illuminati/FreeMasonry Conspiracy Theorists, whom I believe know better but are so dishonest as to try to hurt the WTS by INTENTIONALLY SPREADING LIES, there are a number of inaccuracies in your last post on page 3.
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There is no particular evidence that C T Russell was "influenced or fascinated with FreeMasons" than he would have been by any other social, political, religious, or similar organzation in his day. Various posters, on a number of previous occasions, have posted several quotes by CTR, in which he made various negative comments about "FreeMasonry".
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The ALLEGED "FreeMasonry iconography" used by CTR IS NOT "FreeMasonry iconography". It is "Egyptian iconography" which relates to CTR's PYRAMID beliefs and teachings. It sounds as if you have not done much reading on this topic, otherwise you WOULD HAVE DOUBTS as to CTR's connection with FreeMasonry.
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As to your statement that CTR was "influenced by Adventists", but did not hold to their beliefs, that is also WRONG! CTR and the WTS were natural extensions of the Second Adventist Movement, with JWs being equal torchbearers with the SDAs.
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As for "FreeMasonry", it acknowledgely was an extremely strong influence in the early days of the United States. The first US President George Washington was a FreeMasonry, as were many of the prominent revolutionists. Washington even performed a FreeMason dedication ceremony at the laying of the cornerstone of the US Capitol building. The Washington Monument in D.C. is considered to be "Freemasonry icoography" (as well as Egyptian). The "pyramid with seeing eye capstone" on the back of the dollar bill is "Freemasonry icoography" (as well as Egyptian).
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However, by the latter part of the 19th century, American FreeMasonry actually fell into public disfavor, with a number of anti-masons newspapers being formed, and even an anti-mason political party. Many members quit, and Lodges all over the US were disbanded. Today, the average age of an American Mason is around 70 years old.
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Its a shame that some people here are actually HELPING THE WTS by promoting ludicrous conspiracy theories, which the WTS then uses to paint "apostates" as a bunch of NUTS WHO WILL STOOP TO ANY LEVEL OF LYING DECEIT to tarnish "God's people".
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It's admirable that you are one of the few here that stands up to these assholes who not only detract from genuine issues, but actually harm our efforts. The people here who NEVER stand up in these threads bear responsibility for their silence.

professor

t's admirable that you are one of the few here that stands up to these assholes who not only detract from genuine issues, but actually harm our efforts. The people here who NEVER stand up in these threads bear responsibility for their silence.

AngryXJW,

What exactly are, in your opinion, "our efforts"? And, what do you mean by trying to scare everyone into taking your side on this issue, or else we will "bear responsibility for" our silence?

Why are you so concerned about a relatively unimportant issue, (Russell was or was not associated with the Freemasons)? And, how can we verify your opinions above to be fact?

JanH

Angryxjw,

I classify Russell, and the whole Bible Student/JW movement, as adventists. Russell was heavily influenced by the Second Adventists, again an offshot of the Millerite movement which spawned the Advent Church and the Seventh Day Adventists.

- Jan

AngryXJW

Jan:__________

I'm not sure whether you understood what I was saying, or even whether are agreeing or disageeing, BUT I TOO consider CTR, the WTS, and JWs to be SECOND ADVENTISTS, thus being an offshoot of the Millerite movement._______

However, saying CTR was "heavily influenced" by the SAs is somewhat misleading, since CTR WAS a SA.______

CTR and his family were baptized in the "endtime year" of 1874 by either Storrs or Stetson, his teachings were a compilation of Advent Christian Church and the Life and Advent Union (and deviations thereof) as taught by Wendell, Stetson, Storrs, Barbour, Paton, etc., and CTR's early followers were those SAs who still stayed on after the failed SA prophecies of 1873/4 and 1878.______

Russell taught that the Millerite Movement fulfilled prophecy and paved the way for the WTS's work. Thus, as far as I'm concerned, any mention of the WTS's history and failed prophecies should always include the history and failed prophecies of the Millerites and the SAs in the intervening years.

JanH

Angryexjw,

I think my point was that on this we agree. It is of course just a matter of lineage and classification, but it is pretty much a fact that you cannot understand the background of the JWs without knowing a bit about the greater adventist movement in which it originated and belongs.

- Jan

ballistic

Of course, we all know the society use free-masons at every quick build for slave-labour and shody buildings.

avengers

Plum: "I am against organized religion" Hey we have something in common.

Like I said before. I understand the difference: "I am a Free Mason". "I am a Freemason"

"I am a Jehovah's Witness". or "I am Jehovah's Witness.

Just to clarify. Even if someone is DF'd, DA'd or totally against the Jehovah's Witness org, the person can always say "I am still Jehovah's Witness", but not "I am a Jehovah's Witness", since the person is not a member of that Organisation anymore.

I personally only wanted to establish the origin of the Watchtower. You've all helped a great deal in establishing that. What I see is that the Watchtower does not have it's roots in "Jehovah" , but in all sorts of strange religions. Weird magazines, with subliminal messages, drawings of total adestruction, false prophecies and what not.

Thank you all for helping out....Andy

PS. I thought this to be a good one: "All JW's are Free Masons". Free labor workers.. hahaha

Edited by - avengers on 5 July 2002 5:23:46

plmkrzy

AngryXJW

There is no particular evidence that C T Russell was "influenced or fascinated with Freemasons" than he would have been by any other social, political, religious, or similar organization in his day.

I can see how my statement would leave that impression. I wasnt trying to suggest that he was fascinated with freemasonry to the extent of focusing on their particular beliefs for any particular purpose. It may have read that way but that was not my intention. The basic point I was trying to make (fascinated was probably too strong) was that Russell, along with the rest of mankind, has all been influenced by other beliefs through out history. CT Russell was no different. He grew uparound those particular influences and he did in fact have friends who were freemasons regardless of what he may or may not have studied about their belief.

For Example: The very same thing can be said about each and every one of us on this discussion forum. Why? Because we are here.

There would be only so much that he could have learned anyway even if he did study them and especially at that time because he was not a freemason himself. Freemasonry was not an open book so his perception of their beliefs was no doubt inaccurate.

However he had to have had more connection with at least some members of the freemasons then you may think because he did manage to convert some into bible students. Then his association with THOSE ex-freemasons no doubt was of even more influence. Around that time is when (note: when = time frame Im not implying as a result of) his views of freemasonry began to take a major down swing. It was negative prior to that obviously because he was converting people and he was making negative remarks about freemasons in response to questions from readers in the old Zion literature. It was probably not quite as negative though until he began to learn more about the sect via his close association with those he had converted.

The ALLEGED "FreeMasonry iconography" used by CTR IS NOT "FreeMasonry iconography". It is "Egyptian iconography" which relates to CTR's PYRAMID beliefs and teachings. It sounds as if you have not done much reading on this topic, otherwise you WOULD HAVE DOUBTS as to CTR's connection with FreeMasonry.

I am very well aware of Russells (Ill use the word) preoccupation with pyramids and its Egyptian history. However youre above statement has nothing to do with what I said on page three. I dont know what youre getting at regarding what I said about his place of burial.

The "pyramid with seeing eye capstone" on the back of the dollar bill is "Freemasonry icoography" (as well as Egyptian).

? OK Im attempting to merge both of your statements here and respond to them.

If I understand you correctly you are saying that Russells Pyramid and the Freemasons pyramid are two different pyramids?

I have no doubts that CTR was NOT a Freemason. I thought I was clear about that.

From the reading I have done, (I have read everything I could find written about CTR and his connection to Freemasons and I am more then willing to read anything you could contribute.

It is my understanding that the Eye in the Pyramid being a major symbol of freemasonry was a false belief that began many years ago (100 or so) and simply STUCK An urban legend.

As to your statement that CTR was "influenced by Adventists", but did not hold to their beliefs, that is also WRONG! CTR and the WTS were natural extensions of the Second Adventist Movement, with JWs being equal torchbearers with the SDAs

Second Adventist Movement, If you could give ma a clear definition of what a Second Adventist is and how they originated?

Edited by - plmkrzy on 5 July 2002 7:42:32

Was Russell a freemason and an adventist?

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