Your first emotional response is anger and hatred for the ORG. You want to lash out but tread carefully. It took years to SLOWLY get my wife out...years of making small comments. Encouraging her to question things and think for herself. Now she swears like a sailor and has no respect for the ORG and people who cant think for themselves.
Thinking of Going Full Disclosure With Wife. Sorta
by freemindfade 69 Replies latest jw friends
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TerryWalstrom
Clarify your thinking by arranging your life in terms of what you value most. . . and why.
Living a good life is not an automatic happening.
Even very lucky people have to struggle.
You can justify your struggles if you're clear on which things come first.
A good exercise for getting a firm grip on what's most important is to try this THOUGHT EXPERIMENT.
You, your wife, and a GB member are stranded on an island with no way off.
You see off in the distance a storm approaching. You don't have shelter, fire, or fresh drinking water.
Your wife is frightened and confused. The GB member tells you that you should all start praying aloud to Jehovah until the storm passes.
You, on the other hand, say: "We need to build some kind of shelter to protect us from the rain. We need to start a fire and boil water for drinking. If any time is left, we should gather coconuts."
PONDER THIS.
Whom should your wife listen to and join in with--you, her husband--or the GB member, her spiritual guide?
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Why this isn't a stupid experiment.
Your concern is a practical one: life in the here and now. Protecting your family and preserving your options for the immediate future are pragmatic considerations. You don't toss a drowning man a Bible--you use a life preserver. The GB member is suddenly seen to be a mere figurehead without any real world advice which will impact what is happening right now.
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All the families for the past 100+ years who listened to GB advice were often bitterly disappointed because the immediate practical implication were falsifying lessons as to practicality.
Young people who didn't get higher education paid the price of low-wage jobs and financial struggles.
Older people who sold their possessions to preach the 1975 message were left stranded and vulnerable.
Married couples who let the GB tell them what sexual practices were 'approved' found themselves feeling pretty stupid and frustrated when the ban was later lifted and made a 'matter of conscience.'
Talented and Creative JW's who abandoned careers become bewildered when they see the success of famous people like Michael Jackson, Prince, Serena Williams who appear to get away with living a full life of celebrity. The clear Double-Standard is confusing and irritating.
Devout parents who've watched their sick children die because of strict blood policies have stood bereaved observing how the GB have steadily eroded their taboo details one by one by one.
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Nobody is better equipped to make fine family choices than you because you're dealing with REALITY while the GB deals with the latest whimsical opinion (New Light) which comes and goes like fashion trends.
If you can get your wife to the point she can weigh PRACTICAL security against ever changing GB security promises she'll become more pragmatic and allow you the room necessary to do what is immediately your conscientious best.
She and you must either become individuals with real choices, or fall into a herd mentality and become shorn sheep locked in a pen with the capricious GB shepherd who just can't make up his mind whether you need to munch grass or old Spam cans.
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LisaRose
Tread carefully, very carefully. Don't tell her anything diectly, as it will only put her on the defensive. It's better if you just ask her to help you understand something. Pick something small, not a major doctrine, something you might feel she might not automatically take the Watchtower s side. For example, if she loves children you could bring up the two witness rule when it comes to child abuse. Say that it bothers you that a child abuse victim might be asked to confront the abuser, and ask her if she feels the same.
You might wait until a situation presents itself, and have a few potential topics to talk about. Don't be confrontational, or show your disappointment if she did sent see your side right away. Drop it and wait for a better time.
This is all extremely difficult, but some have managed to get their spouse out with them, so it's possible.
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freemindfade
Love all the advice everyone, I really appreciate it. -
kairos
It's been very difficult between my wife and I over the last 4.5 years.
I left for good in 2013.I never held back telling her everything I learned.
I was scared I'd lose her and this caused much stress.We are committed to each other now more than ever, but she still wants to be a JW.
I won't stop her. I remind her that it was the control that finally caught up with me and I would be wrong to attempt controlling her.I fully agree about mentally preparing for the worst.
I read a topic last night and heard the phrase again this morning from my wife herself. "Having a soft place to land".
Put that in place before you go "full disclosure". That's was my big mistake. I survived it, but it could have been less painful. -
Sail Away
FayeDunaway
Oh my, those last 4 posts were quite discouraging. This religion tears apart families. I think I'm the first woman to contribute here, and I just want to tell you what to say through my perspective.
Assure her you love her and you want to stay strong together and she is the only one for you. She might be somewhat insecure about that, because you are an attractive man. Also assure her you do not want to be the master of her faith, that is up to her. If she started seeing things your way eventually, that would be fantastic, but you won't push her and you will let her decide on her own, but no matter what you will be by her side. Let her know that even though you have decided you don't believe in any of it, you are still a moral person and you're going to be a faithful husband. Let her know you know how hard this is for her, and you are the one who changed, and it's not what she was expecting when she married you. But remind her you married for love, and that has not changed.
^^ This! ^^
freemindfade, I'm so sorry you are having such a painful struggle. You have had lots of good input from others who are or have been in your shoes. Each situation is different, because we are all different people and because relationships are so very tricky.
Like, FayeDunaway, I'm a woman, so I haven't been in your shoes, but I have been in your wife's shoes. My husband faded from the organization before the Internet. He didn't know what fading was, he just did it. At the time we had a toddler and an infant. We were both raised-in from early childhood and had promised before marriage to raise our children together "in the Truth". I felt betrayed. I felt like he had dumped a huge weight of responsibility on my shoulders, and I was resentful.
Mr. Sail Away didn't really talk a lot about why he left the organization. I knew he had been at Bethel just after 1975, that his former Bethel roommate had been involved with some group of dissenters there and that Mr. Sail Away didn't believe the "This generation" doctrine. He said everything was predicated on only one scripture, and he thought there should, in effect, be "two or more witnesses" to a matter of such importance. I believed that Jehovah would clear matters up in time. The C.O. told me to view him and treat him like an unbelieving mate, so that is what I did. Years later Mr. Sail Away did disclose that he didn't believe in the ransom. I believed that he was an "apostate" and had "sinned against the Holy Spirit", but I never believed that I had a scriptural reason to divorce him for his belief or lack of belief as long as he didn't oppose me.
I regret that Mr. Sail Away didn't feel he could talk openly with me. I was an uber-dub to be sure. I believed my children's lives were at stake and that it was my job to protect them. Over the years, Mr. Sail Away would make some mention of how Science and JW/Bible teachings just didn't agree. That was important to him. It was not a topic I, even to this day, am interested in researching. He didn't learn TTATT until I walked away over 30 years after he faded!
I have been out four years now, and the shoe is on the other foot in many ways. Because I dove head first into the TTATT, I started wanting changes in our relationship before he was ready. He told me his attitude all along had been that "the Truth" was pretty much benign, so he had no problem with my raising our kids that way. He just went about his life, building a business and studying Science and Computer Technology.
As we got older we got back to a common interest which has always been sailing. I am certain that having extended periods of time away from meetings (indoctrination) while sailing played a huge role in my waking up. Mr. Sail Away is absolutely a loyal husband, a good man, father and provider. He just wan't the type to talk about his feelings. There was definitely a painful disconnect in or marriage.
When I finally woke up and walked away from the organization (I didn't know about fading yet either!), things got worse before they got better. I started researching TTATT about four months after I left. I was soon done with the "headship principle" and wanted a more equal relationship. It now became my intent to get him to see things my way. It was pretty rough going for a while, but I figured he put up with my JW ways for all those years, so it was my turn to do the same. In the meantime, I got into therapy for myself and learned assertiveness and communication skills that I was sorely lacking after being a submissive JW wife for over 35 years (Mr. Sail Away would tell you that I was never really all that submissive!)
I feel like this post is a little all over the map, but I hope you can see that I'm saying that if you and Mrs. FMF love each other, are committed to each other and are forgiving, I think you have a chance. You will both say and do things that will hurt the other. You have an advantage over Mr. Sail Away though, you know TTATT now.
Even though I had doctrinal issues decades ago, my severe cognitive dissonance always revolved around how other people, marriages and families where being hurt by JW doctrine. Cognitive dissonance is a bizarre thing. I still don't understand why I hung on so long. It took some really traumatic events for me to walk away. I never wanted to live in a paradise earth without my family. When it became imminently clear that my husband and both of my children were never coming back "to Jehovah", I chose them. I decided that the twenty or so years I had left here on this planet with them would be so much better than eternity alone without them. I was absolutely right.
freemindfade, do you know what Mrs. FMF's most pressing inner conflicts might be? Can you find out through some open and honest discussion and disclosure on your part? As a woman, all those years, what I wanted most was to connect with my husband. We are still working on that, but at least there isn't a huge elephant in the room any more.
Wishing you both all the best,
Sail Away
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freemindfade
The loss part I am prepared for. Anyone who would walk out because of how I think, I would not be begging them to stay. Its just not me. I know the kind of person i am and I am cool with it.
That being said, I think it would be silly, but who knows what she would do.
One of my main issues is this, I have always been the social one, in the places we have lived during our marriage, I have always spearheaded our friendships if you will. Often against her pushing the opposite way, well shes a lot different person now, appreciates the friends weve gained over the years much more. But still our social life as a couple really requires both of us being dubs, partly why I just don't DA at this point. I have good friends. But If I go this route and it did lead to us staying together, but me being out, I would probably be the one to go, because I would have no social ties in the jw land any longer, and would not be making any more.
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DesirousOfChange
QUOTED FROM THE LINK: After realizing the organization is dead wrong about the 607 date, the house of cards started falling. 607 is wrong, so 1914 is wrong. 1914 is wrong, so 1919 is wrong. 1919 is wrong, which means Jesus didn’t appoint the leaders of the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society as his “Faithful and Discreet Slave”.
This means the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society, and its Governing Body have zero spiritual authority. They are just men. Men who are captive to the most dangerous concept of all — that they are chosen by God. (Bold added.)
That about sums it up: They are just men.
It the secret they don't want you to discover.
Don't go to school. Don't question anything. Keep busy on the treadmill.
Doc
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OneEyedJoe
If you're the social one, you have a huge advantage. Just start making non-cult friends. It'll show your wife how wrong the cult is about worldly people and help her see a way out if there's already a social group outside of the cult waiting for her. Obviously it's not just that easy, but you're going to need non-cult friendships sooner or later no matter what happens. -
anthea motch
Well, having experienced telling my JW son the truth about why I was leaving the organisation, I can honestly say that difficult as it has been I am so glad that I was true to myself!! Yes, he has cut me out of his life and it has been heartache but I know that I can't go on living a lie. It is both liberating and healthy to be totally honest and myself. I would not trade it for anything because I believe to do so is playing into the hands of a cult organisation that instills fear and emotional blackmail into its members. It takes courage and conviction but I believe it to be the way forward.