Lust For Glory Alienating The Majority?

by Englishman 70 Replies latest watchtower child-abuse

• 

  Simon

  Well, I think what I paraphrased form memory of just one email from several weeks ago:

  I did not complain and threaten to take silentlambs links off my website but was pointing out that I thought it was better if we could resolve things sensibly instead of things escalating and becoming silly.

  ... was pretty accurate:

  I would prefer to get this matter sorted out properly as I would hate to have to start replying to her from my site (which I will do if I have to) or getting really petty and removing links to silentlambs. However, I'm starting to get really angry about what she has been doing and will do whatever I need to because it really is getting beyond a joke.

  If you want to read things a different way (and try and make everyone else read it that way with bold and red highlighting) then that is up to you. I was merely pointing out how strongly I felt about this issue.

  That silentlambs was a whole new game, and that the board was dedicated to the victims, and we don't need this negativity. That comment was before you started ranting and raving, but still I did not edit your post

  Please tell me where I started ranting and raving?! My comment on the forum was very simple and clearly stated the reasons (answering dunbeetles post to me) and that I did not think that the SL forum wanted to start off with stuff like that and that it should be handled by email. If this is ranting and raving then you need serious help matey!

  It's funny to note that when you need help on silentlambs, you wish to resolve it via email, and you get exactly what you want.

  Again, I suggested email because I did not think you wanted stuff like that on your forum. I was trying to help.

  I could have gone on your post and asked you to take it elsewhere, or hammered you in some other way, but I did not. I spoke with you in private, and we handled it with no problems, and you even got what you asked for.

  No, you couldn't, because I didn't post anything that was unreasonable. You know it would have made you look incredibly biased. I approached you with the problem. It seems someone had edited the post I made and no one knew who.

  When it comes to me, you couldn't just leave it alone and delete my membership could you? You had to try and embarrass me, and make me look like the fool. Well, I may look like a fool, and I may look like I haven't a clue what I'm talking about, and I may look to others (thanks to you), that I am this name calling abusive person without being provoked,

  I didn't do that. You chose to keep posting.

  ... but at least I don't look like a liar. Liars deserve no respect. They're worse than people like Farkel and Lonewolf. I have to give at least Farkel some credit. On the thread where you took my comments out of context, he admitted to misunderstanding me and attacking me first (although that didn't slow his attacks down any). He may be alot of things, but judging from that, at least he's not a liar. How do you expect anyone to believe you in situations like DungBeetle, if you can't tell the truth about this? How do we know what else you lie about, or have lied about? Oh, I know, you'll deny these emails, and ever saying the things you've said. You have to cover yourself. And everyone will eat it up. Yet more proof that the people around here have not lost that 'Watchtower' mentality. The Watchtower taught us to have a co-dependent attitude, and that carries right over to places like this, and guys like you eat it right up. Some people can't snap out of it, they MUST follow, whether it be Ray Franz, Bill Bowen or Simon Green, they MUST follow. And with that comes blindness, not only must they follow, but they must eat up the lies and betrayals, and other forms of dishonesty, without even taking a minute to take notice that once again they're being screwed, but yet another man. So, go ahead Simon, deny these charges, deny you ever said these things, and make me out to be a liar. Don't worry one bit, most if not all will believe every word you say.

  This is all about the two quotes at the start of this topic?! Gosh!

  FYI: I have plenty of proof about a lot of things and do not idly throw accusations about - I have chosen though to be the 'bigger man' and let things drop a good many times. Yes, I could dash someone's credibility to pieces by posting their emails around but what would it accomplish other than hurting someone who obviously has some problems? As long as they stop hurting me then I am happy.

  I do not want any "followers" and I don't think anyone blindly believes every word I say - I simply give my side of things when I think it matters and let people decide for themselves.

  Now, all I can see you have accomplished with your outburst - you have shown that you are NOT discreet or trustworthy and for someone in such a potentially sensitive position (on the silentlambs site) I think this is a serious drawback.

  I did not deactivate your account because I did not think it was fair to reply to you without you being able to reply back and if you don't want to post here ... well, just don't post! You really need me to do it for you?!

  Also, I have edited the emails you posted because some of the information was private (apart form being irrelevant to the matter at hand). Nothing sinistare and I have not altered anything that you said. of course I am honest and clearly show when a post has been edited.

  Edited by - Simon on 25 November 2002 12:56:23
• 

  LoneWolf

  Sorry, RevMalk, but I can't satisfy your desire to make me a hypocrite, mean, unfeeling, a man from Mars or any other portion of your emotional rant. (Personally, I think we need some violin music for you here.)

  The truth is that I have taken up the cause of abuse and rape of women for many years now and had some phenominal success in such circumstances, in spite of the fact that in many of those cases everyone else thought the situation was hopeless. It wasn't. Why? Because I dropped the emotional rants and the water works and looked at the situations with logic and reason.

  In one of those cases one of my fellow workers (a tiny little spitfire of a gal) was being sexually harassed by an employee of another company. The prime entities in this case were an international corporation (Weyerhaeuser Timber Corp.), their union (the AFofL/CIO), and our union (the Teamsters). I tackled them all single-handedly and at the same time. There were no lawyers, newspaper reporters, or crowds of people backing me. I got ALL of what I wanted, no questions asked.

  Now, Bill's done a fine job, and I'm glad for both him and the lambs. But at the same time, all he did is take on a bunch of doddering old fools back in Brooklyn, many of which need help wiping themselves. His life was never on the line.

  A great many people who take on the entities I did end up wearing concrete overshoes in the bottom of the bay. Therefore, I have both the credentials and the experience to speak bluntly on these types of things, and no need whatsoever to kiss Bill's feet.

  There are STILL three bottom lines here:

  1. Bill goofed up. He's never corrected it, and contrary to your apparent view, he is not God.

  2. You need to read and get the meaning of the things people post to you, instead of simply reading the first few words and then jumping to some wild asinine conclusions that are totally unsupported by the evidence. Running off and pouting about it doesn't hurt us at all, and only prolongs your own discomfort.

  3. I suspect from your irrational answers that you are one of the lambs --- that you are one of the victims. I say that because the mental patterns you demonstrate are a normal symptom of the paranoia that is commonly experienced by them. It is part of the tragic aftermath of that form of abuse. But --- for your own mental health, (or an essential part of regaining it) you must recognize that you will tend to see monsters where there aren't any.

  In my case, as I'm the guy that you conjured up all these horrible motives, etc., for, maybe you would be interested in comparing them to these facts: I have been married to the same wonderful little freckle-faced girl for 42 years now. I have never been unfaithful to her in all those years, and that includes the 10 years spent as a long-haul trucker where I was constantly approached by every type, shape, color, and combination of women imaginable, to offering me sexual favors. We have six kids, and my girl has had such confidence and trust in me that for the last four she wouldn't allow the doctors to deliver them. She wanted me to. I did.

  Secondly, five of those kids are girls. As they grew up, there is no subject that they felt uncomfortable to approach me with. That included everything from feminine hygene to how to get a bra that would fit. How many men do you know whose daughters have that much faith in them? I have never let them down in such matters.

  Now --- who should be ashamed of themselves? You? Or me?

  LoneWolf

  P.S. If my hunch is correct that you are one of those victims, note again what I said. It is a common and normal thing to experience such super sensitivity and paranoia in the aftermath. There is no shame in that part of it, and it does not mean that you are insane (although sometimes it feels that way).

  If you can recognize these things and work with them, it will take you a long way towards healing and being normal again. Good luck, kid, and I mean that.
• 

  RevMalk

  Lonewolf,

  You are right, I am a victim. And perhaps that makes me super sensitive, and paranoid, I guess it happens. Your last post was wonderful, you got through to me, in a logical, calm manner. That's what makes me even more confused as to why you would stoop to the low levels you did earlier. You don't need to be like that. You appear to be intelligent and caring. I know how it happens, it happened to me. I went around for days acting just like that, and I apologized for that. I am ashamed that it got to me as well. You have so much to offer, but posts that insult don't show that. They show you in an unfavorable light, that apparently shouldn't be. I believe you when you say that you've helped many, because from the way you just handled me, I can see you have what it takes. I'm not saying that because I am a victim that I should get special treatment, or because I support silentlambs, or anything like that. I am saying that we all deserve special treatment and understanding. E-man is right, there are many abuses here, not just one. I feel abused because some of my family have disowned me. I feel abused that I lost out on so much throughout life, and that I was lied to for 20 years. I'm not special, I have done nothing to deserve anything from anyone. I was merely stating my opinion, which still stands strong, that we ALL deserve respect, no matter what has happened in our lives. And now that I've read this well written logical post from you, I see that you have it in you, but failed to use that judgement (a few months at JWD will do it to you). I personally find it to be a shame, you have so much to offer, but apparently at times you don't.

  Simon, I will use my self control and not post here any longer, it will be difficult yes, because I can't keep my trap shut. I'm passionate about these things, and yes sometimes too passionate. Not to mention I seem to be a posting addict as of late. That is why I asked for your assistance, but that's ok, I'll do it on my own. Maybe I'll take up drinking for a new fix
• 

  waiting

  Howdy y'all,

  Now, Bill's done a fine job, and I'm glad for both him and the lambs. But at the same time, all he did is take on a bunch of doddering old fools back in Brooklyn, many of which need help wiping themselves. - lone wolf

  That's not true. Those "doddering old fools back in Brooklyn" aren't the power of the WTBTS - and anybody with sense knows it.

  Bowen, SilentLambs & others, including attorneys have taken on the corporate structure & religious fundamentalism of the WTBTS and helped victims to take them into court with their attorneys. They have made public the destruction done in secret by the WTBTS. And they have given a function, a structure, and a place to be for sexual victims of the WTBTS - and NO ONE had been able to accomplish this publicly before SilentLambs. NO ONE - and "a place to be" is priceless for survivors/victims.

  His life was never on the line. - lone wolf

  I dare say that almost all of us never put our "life on the line" for the xjw cause - or even child abuse. Did he EVER say his "life was on the line?" Don't think so. What he DID - and continues TO DO - is put his business, his family, his marriage, his free time, his working time, his wife's time, and I would imagine some of his children't time (which isn't spent with him) on the line. Much more than the vast majority of us have done, including myself.

  So the man never apologizes....perhaps because he flat just doesn't agree with us? What? Kill him? lol............kill at least 3/4 of the men alive.

  Once again, I don't back any man 100% (I've been divorced) - but I DO see the high value of what men like Bowen are accomplishing.....along with things I don't agree with. The good far outweighs the non-agreement - and I don't see any bad, just non-agreement.

  waiting

  ps: btw, I printed the Free Minds article by Mike Pence. Well worth discussing. And that doesn't mean just agreement.
• 

  Simon

  I can recommend drinking ... in fact, as a fellow forum admin you'll find it pretty soon becomes an indespensable tool for maintaining some sanity (hic)
• 

  sf

  Rev,

  Go if you must, yet keep in mind, on your progressive journey that you are not alone. You aren't the only one whos soul has been shredded by abuse. Abuse that takes on many dynamics.

  Many of us are just as passionate, if not more, when it comes to our pain (anger). After all, it is OURS. We own it. It's as if we feel we can do with it as we please. Well, we can choose 'positive passion'. And for me, as I've learned thru built-up support networks (on and off the net), it takes me further with others in a more positive way. Please don't separate yourSELF and cut yourSELF off from many here. We all need to build each other with positive passion. Which also means, it's okay to express raw truth (which Tom-Lonewolf, has) to turn that passion of yours onto a positive course of ACTION.

  Please stay.

  Sincerely, sKally...spiritually raped at 9 years old, raped physically at 2...(POSITIVE PAIN PASSION klass)
• 

  Englishman

  I have to say something!!!

  Lone Wolfs post and Rev Malks response were brilliant. I take my hat off to both of you. Malky Boy, you stay put, please, no grand exits needed, you have too much to offer.

  Englishman.
• 

  larc

  Rev, I have tryed to read all of the responses as objectively as possible. This is not entirely possible because I know the writing history of many of the posters, so I am somewhat biased when I read their words. Unfortunately, I do not have a real grasp of your writing history, so my thoughts regarding what you write can not be taken in context. However, your last dialogue with LoneWolf does help. As you stated, this is a very emotional issue for you, so perhaps you do over react to some things written, or read into them, things that were never intended. At any rate, I think you should stay here, because this is a place of support, and I think you would benefit by your continued involvement. I know you are very upset right now, about some things that have been written. We have all been there, including me, Simon, Englishman and LoneWolf to name a few. As I said, I do hope that you stick around. In the long run, I think it will do you good.
• 

  Jerry Bergman

  Larc Well put. We need to be more positive about each other and less critical (or at least more tactful). We all have our horror stories to tell and our grievances, but this does not justify lambasting each other. I still do not understand what the commotion is about. PS Would anyone like to hear my story??? We should do a book of all of our stories (it could be a best sell)
• 

  teejay

  Thanks Tom (Lone Wolf) for saying what you said there at the end to Rev.

  And Rev? Thanks for responding the way you did.

  I tellya... sometimes good things come from these discussions and it's a mighty fine thing to see.

  Happy Thanksgiving y'all.