by meadow77 740 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
ftooth,
More human descriptions of a non-human. If God is the Alpha and the Omega, the Beggining and the End, all knowing etc..etc.. he can be 3 different people if he wants to and theres nothing you can do about it.
Mortal, Immortal, etc..etc..do not apply to God. God is everything and anything, continous. Im sure if he wanted to cruise around as Jesus he could.
Does it really matter????
Does the Lord's message and sacrafice somehow change??? No. So whats the point.
Crazy151,
Does the Lord's message and sacrafice somehow change??? No. So whats the point.
You are absolutely right!
The problem is that some Non-Trinitarians and Trinitarians prefer to cut each other up rather than follow the teachings of the Christ. They prefer to argue with one another and degrade one another.
They would rather "kill" one another spiritually than to relent. So much for the "love among yourselves" that Jesus taught! On this thread it does not exist!
What a hypocrisy! What a damn shame. These people do not deserve the name of CHRISTIAN! because they do not follow the teachings of Christ!
IW
Brummie,
Why would Jesus promise to be where 2 or 3 are gathered in his name if he is omnipresent? To be omnipresent, he would also be where 2 or 3 are NOT gathered in his name and where 2 or 3 hate his name. So, what would be the point of his promise?
Hebrews 9:24 says: "Christ did not enter a holy place made with hands, a mere copy of the true one, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us." Acts 3:20, 21 says that God will "send Jesus, the Christ appointed for you, whom heaven must receive until the period of restoration of all things about which God spoke by the mouth of His holy prophets from ancient time." And an angel told the apostles: "This Jesus, who has been taken up from you into heaven, will come in just the same way as you have watched Him go into heaven." (Acts 1:11)
These texts establish that (1) Christ is in heaven, not omnipresent upon the earth, (2) he will remain in heaven until the coming restoration of the earth, and (3) he will return to the earth in the same way he was taken up from it.
True, Jesus said he would be "with" his disciples until the end of the present age. (Matthew 28:20) But that is not due to his being omnipresent. Instead, it's in the way he specified. "Jesus answered and said to him, 'If anyone loves me, he will keep my word; and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our abode with him.'" (John 14:23) That was the assurance he gave to the apostle Paul when he told him, "I am with you, and no man will attack you in order to harm you." (Acts 18:10)
If Christ were omnipresent, his abode would be with everybody, not just those who keep his word. According to the context of John 14:23, Christ makes his home with his disciples by means of the Holy Spirit. This presence is very real. Its operation can be felt. The Spirit will convict of sin, lead to daily repentance, impart assurance of salvation, bestow the peace of God that passes all understanding, admonish, and comfort - all of this in connection with the Scriptures. It is in that way that Christ has promised to manifest himself to the disciples, but not to the world. See John 14:15-22.
fjtoth
fjtoth/herk,
Why would Jesus promise to be where 2 or 3 are gathered in his name
Why would Jesus be with "disciples" that fought with one another?
IW
Fjtoth you kind of answered it yourself:
he will keep my word; and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our abode with him.'"
That denotes a relationship and is applicable to anyone "Where ever " they are. That makes him omnipresent. He obodes with believers internationally. A created angel CAN NOT be in more than one place at a time.
God is omnipresent yet he is outside of creation as well as in it, in other words, God is not in a brick wall or a statue giving it life as some choose to believe "create no a molden image"...our seperation from God was a "Spiritual" seperation so when Christ omnipresently is with believers "Where ever" then it means that relationship is restored. He is not fellowshipping with unbelievers or aboding with them, they dont want him too, however they are in his presence and he knows who are his sheep and who are his enemies.
Your comment on the Holy Spirit is true, but do think the Holy Spirit is therefore in more places than God? You seem to imply that Christ cannot be there in more places than one but the Holy spirit is.
Thanks
Brummie
Is there a scripture in the NT that shows that Jesus would have approved of this rangling among his disciples, and the name calling?
IW
Brummie,
I can only tell you what Jesus said, and that's what I did. Your comments are interesting, but I would like to see where in the Bible you find support for them. By the way, it shows no honour to Christ to call him an angel. Why do you feel it's important to make mention of such a thought? I'm interested.
IW,
I have no idea why you felt a need to barge into the discussion with charges about people cutting each other up, degrading one another, killing one another, being hypocrites, etc. If this thread upsets you so much, why do you bother to come here?
fjtoth
Herk,
You wrote:
IW,I have no idea why you felt a need to barge into the discussion with charges about people cutting each other up, degrading one another, killing one another, being hypocrites, etc. If this thread upsets you so much, why do you bother to come here?
Gee, I don't know. MAYBE IT'S BECAUSE I CAN NOT STAND HYPOCRISY!
But really other than that, I wish you all the best that Jesus himself would wish you fjtoth/herk.
IW
I can understand IW, it does get disheartning. I very SELDOM get into this type of conversation, see 26 pages evolved before I opened my trap...now thats got to be a record. I think there is a Scripture though that talks about the ranglings and arguments of people, even worse the greedy acts of people at the passover meals...its all human. The new testiment church had the same problems as any.
fjtoth
I can only tell you what Jesus said
And Jesus said this too "Where-ever" 2 or 3 are gathered I AM THERE (He is there)... right? Also the "abode" reference and no doubt many others. But hey I'm just dealing with this for now.
It all makes sense to me. He is "where-ever" and therefore is omnipresent.
Fjtoth dont know why I mentioned "created angel" I figure its because I was thinking how the WT have always reffered to Christ.
Brummie
IW,
As long as you're happy with the belief that Herk and I are one and the same, he and I are happy too. He does resent the idea, though, that you think he's as ugly as I am, even if he's a few years older. (I'm 66 and he's 70.)
fjtoth
