The Trinity

by meadow77 740 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • IslandWoman
    IslandWoman

    Hi Brummie,

    The sad irony of this whole sad thread is that given a chance the different factions of the Muslims, Hindu's etc. could be having the same "he said/they said" arguments as the so called Christians on this thread and with the same no win results! These so called Christians on this thread are just plain egotistical and are really not interested in helping their brother. LOL

    So much for Christianity! You know "Christianity", that religion that burned people at the stake and tortured those that would not believe! What a damn crock!

    IW

  • SwedishChef
    SwedishChef

    Here's an article I found on a website ( http://www.letusreason.org/Trin8.htm). I found it to sum up what I believe concerning "is the Trinity pagan?" issue.

    Many have adopted this accusation as the main complaint of hindrance to believing in evangelical Christianity. There is no other concept of God attacked more than this subject. There are many things about God that are not understood immediately, I've heard the same for predestination. Ive heard it said "people dont join the Evangelical church because they cant understand the teaching on the Trinity". This is just one of many straw man arguments. People do not come to Christ because they dont understand the numerous doctrines. They refuse to because they cannot admit they are sinful and are in need of help outside themselves. Turning over their control to God is an act of faith. Instead faith is substituted with the carnal mind wanting to understand something from strictly a human perspective. If I can't fully understand it I will not believe, but this is only an excuse. As Jesus stated in Jn.3:19-21" Men love darkness rather than light, they don't come to Christ because their deeds will be exposed". Both Jews and Muslim's emphatically deny that God has a Son, if one is going to find a doctrine offensive to them, I think this would be it. No one preaches the Trinity in salvation but what is preached is that Jesus is the Son of God, he is Lord. We learn about the nature of God and other basic doctrines as we grow in the faith, not before. The simple reason is we need the Holy Spirit to be our teacher in the deeper things of God.
    Is the Trinity pagan? The pagan religions had what we call trinities however on closer examination they are not the same in concept or substance. In the same way we would not agree with all the other religions that have a strict monotheistic view of God to be embraced as the same God of the Bible. (Islam, Bahai) The pagan concept was encapsulated with a Father, Mother, giving birth to a Son. They were three major Gods with many minor god's as well. Their trinity was comprised of three Gods not one. The Greek triad of Zeus, Athena, and Apollo, the Hindu triad of Brahma, Vishnu, and Shiva the Egyptian triad of Isis, Horus, and Sub bear no resemblance to the Biblical Trinity. They were all separate not united as the one God and almost unanimously had a mother involved as in a heavenly family. This was really tritheism, which has more in common with Mormonism than a triune God. Anti Trinitarians make usage of the statues with three heads and saying that is our pagan God. If one is going to discount the Trinity because of some similarities in name only and not in substance. Then maybe they should be looking at their own pagan similarities. One can still be in idolatry, if their one God is not the God of the Bible.
    Anti Trinitarians make usage of the statues with three heads and saying that is our pagan God. If one is going to discount the Trinity because of some similarities in name only and not in substance. Then maybe they should be looking at their own pagan similarities. One can still be in idolatry, if their one God is not the God of the Bible.
    Where did the pagans get a concept of three ? Why not two or four ? Where did they get the idea of a God in heaven anyway? What about their belief in a virgin and a son, where did that originate from ? Rom.1:20-25 tells us that man from the beginning knew God."... 'and their foolish hearts were darkened" vs.25 "they exchanged the truth for a lie, and worshipped and served the creature rather than the creator." When mankind fell into darkness of sin, they still retained some elements of the truth but distorted its meaning and it became lost.
    As Walter Martin wrote "In order to find out if the doctrine of the Trinity is true, we do not look to see if it resembles paganism, but to the bible, to see if God teaches it in his word. Pagans also believe in the concept of God. does this mean that God must not be true? Pagans sleep. Does that mean sleeping is wrong ? We must not dismiss an idea merely because it is held in common with those whom we may not approve." (the New Cults p.49) Lets not try to find all kinds of perversions from the outside that have nothing to do with the Biblical record, lets go to the Scripture to prove our major points.
    Alexander Hislop, in his book, "the two Babylon's", traces the history of the practices and traditions of the Roman Catholic church. He writes on pg. 18, "All these forms have existed from ancient times, while overcome with idolatry, the recognition of the Trinity was universal, proving how deep rooted in the human race was the doctrine on the subject , which comes out so distinctly in Genesis" Robert watts in New Apologetic says "The Pagan triads are "residuary fragments of their lost knowledge of God, not different stages in a process of evolution. But evidence of a moral and spiritual degradation" (Augustus H. Strongs systematic Theology p.352)
    While their are Pagan Trinities which can be traced back to Babylon, instead of supporting anti Trinitarian views such as the Watchtower literature promotes, it is evidence for the tri-une God. Lets not try to find all kinds of perversions from the outside that have nothing to do with the Biblical record, lets go to the Scripture to prove our major points
    Hislop writes that many pagan religions held to one infinite God the creator. Strict monotheism is found in Islam and a few other religions. Are we now to accept their view because God is called one (singular).
    If we are to reject the concept of the triune God, a unified one, because of the pagan distortions, then we must reject much more than this. The pagan cultures also had a virgin birth and some even had a resurrection, Tammuz died and raised 40 days later. The pagan religions had a priesthood and sacrifices, this too became distorted with human sacrifices for Gods blessings. Some Pagans believed that certain gods became men. They had Biblical symbology such as a dove, the lamb, altars, their are many religions that have distortions of the Bibles account of the flood. Are we now to reject Genesis because of their misrepresentations. They also practiced tongues- ecstatic babble. All of these are counterfeits and distortions of truth, yet we are told since they have a counterfeit Trinity, we are to reject the Biblical Trinity on the same grounds. If you are going to do that, then you must reject all of it on the basis of it being found in some form in ancient paganism. You then annihilate the doctrine of Christ as the God/man, virgin birth, his sacrifice etc. All these are the proof of what Paul explained of what happened in history in Romans one, that mankind had a true knowledge but refused to worship him and sank into idolatry.
    The God of the Bible is unique. He is tri-une, which is neither polytheistic nor is it tri-theistic. God is one in nature and is composed of three distinct eternal persons. They are one in substance with a difference in position. What makes all three the one God is that they share the same nature. This is the simple description of the God of the Bible. There is one choice from the Bibles revelation, if one denies the tri-une God, they are either left with atheism or polytheism.

  • IslandWoman
    IslandWoman

    So much for Christianity! You know "Christianity", that religion that burned people at the stake and tortured those that would not believe! What a damn crock!

  • SwedishChef
    SwedishChef

    "So much for Christianity! You know "Christianity", that religion that burned people at the stake and tortured those that would not believe! What a damn crock!"

    Island Woman, I don't want to call you a liar, because this is a common misconception. It is often assumed that the Christians were the ones who "burned people at the stake and tortured those that would not believe."
    However, this is simply not the truth; what you should have said is "so much for Catholicism", for the Roman Catholic church was responsible for this reign of terror.
    The Roman Catholic church ruled with great authority, and persecuted anyone who did not believe their false doctrine. Bible doctine itself condemns the Catholic Church's teachings and actions, and true Cristians were among the many to die for their faith.
    The Roman Catholic Church is the "Harlot" in Revelation chapter 17 and is the largest distortion to the Word of God in history. It bears no resemblance at all to the New Testament church.

  • IslandWoman
    IslandWoman

    Protestants also burned people at the stake. Christians have a terrible record, one which no amount of explaining can erase! This is the way it is.

    IW

  • herk
    herk

    SwedishChef,

    You're wasting your time if you think some of us are going to wade through the gobbledygook of someone who's had no involvement in this thread. It's easy to plagiarize what others have written. Why not do your own thinking and deal with what those involved in the discussion are saying?

    This is just another illustration of how you constantly reach for straws. You haven't been able to defend your pagan theory using your own thinking ability, so now you have to call in reinforcements from others like yourself, hoping that they can make your pagan concepts appear reasonable. Your case is appearing more and more pathetic each passing day.

    Herk

  • IslandWoman
    IslandWoman

    "Herk",

    Do you sleep overnight at "fjtoth's" or do you just come and go every two hours or so?

    IW

  • herk
    herk

    SwedishChef,

    In 1612, two men were the last of many who were burned at the stake in Protestant England for denying the Trinity. Others since then were brutally tortured and beaten to death by mobs with the approval of their churches. Other Protestant countries in Europe treated non-Trinitarians in a similar fashion. Take the time to read about what John Calvin did to Michael Servetus or what Protestant King James of KJV fame did to Bartholomew Legate and Edward Wightman.

    It seems there's much about Protestant history that you're not aware of.


    IW,

    If you really must know, fjtoth has a little office attached to his apartment. I have a key to his office and can enter any time, day or night. Sometimes we work there together and sometimes he's out on the road. We both work part-time. We both build websites, but he also works in sales. Any more questions?


    Herk

  • Satanus
  • SwedishChef
    SwedishChef

    "This is just another illustration of how you constantly reach for straws. You haven't been able to defend your pagan theory using your own thinking ability, so now you have to call in reinforcements from others like yourself, hoping that they can make your pagan concepts appear reasonable. Your case is appearing more and more pathetic each passing day."

    The hypocrisy astounds me, Herk! I read through this article and found that it reflects what I believe. I posted it. You have done the same.
    (think back to your "refutation" of Isaiah 9:6) Dakota has quoted people as well. There's nothing wrong with quoting something that expresses your thoughts. I now see how it works. You can post borrowed information, but I can't, I see how the game is!
    You still haven't been able to refute Isaiah 9:6, and denying the Trinity on the basis that it's pagan still doesnt refute it.

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit