Jesus Sacrifice - How Stupid and Illogical (page 6)

WildHorses

I believe the Bible was written by a bunch of men who wanted to rule the people. They added to the Bible what they wanted man to do.

I no longer believe in the Bible or religion. But for some odd reason, I still believe there is a God. Go figure.

gumby

Lilacs,

You must have read my mind. Your thoughts are mine exactly.

I like the .."go figure" ...part. That's the problem though. We can figure our butts off, and will never know about him. Perhaps when we die we will.Why not now?

Yeru, you seem to presume that without being a christian all there is is "a void". That is not true. There are many world religions that are not christian and the followers of such faiths are quite fulfilled, thank you very much.

Personally, I see the biblical story as mythological. I also see stories surrounding my own faith (pagan) as mythological aswell. The difficulty comes when someone asserts that mythology is fact / history and will not accept that there is even a slight possibility that they may be wrong.

If I said that the Osiris/Isis/Horus story actually happened based on little evidence then I would be entitled to my views - but as soon as I start telling others they should also believe the same thing I am stepping over the boundary from religious belief to religious bigotry.

Sirona

DannyBear

Good thread Amanda.

Nobody has mentioned that after 'original sin' (kinda like OEM), god immediately had a plan, spent the next 3,000 yrs predicting the plan, causing cave-dweller's/tents to write down just how, who and where the predicted 'payment' would be made, not to mention that a majority would reject his plan/payment. God should have known.

If he (god) utilized so much time and energy to forumulate the plan, imbue it into the minds of prophets, so they could record it, should he not also have recognized what his plan would allow humans to justify/excuse in the name of his plan? Of course he knew all of hundreds perhaps thousands of various 'christian' religious dogma would result from the payment or fullfillment of his plan. If he knew so much detail 3,000 yrs before, did he exercise his Wt explained 'selective memory'/ 'selective prediction' about the whole affair? Think maybe?

There is way to many ifs, to make this whole story plausible. For the God of order, who created a masterful work of art, the universe, with all its 'checks and balances', to claim authorship of the 'redemption plan', one must conclude this god is disorderly and to say the least, a dictator who revels in chaos.

Somehow if there is a real God, I don't think he would want his name attached to anything related to this obvious myth, regarding paying him back, for something he never really gave up.

Danny

Edited by - DannyBear on 9 December 2002 9:3:33

spinner

Jesus said, "We do not live on bread alone, but on every word proceeding

from the mouth of God" Matt 4:4

WHAT DOES GOD SAY ABOUT ALL THIS CONFUSION?

He would say," I very lovingly made the arrangement that if my people

sinned, they would have to give something up, like their best ram.

This was like taking a toy away when the child was naughty,

and letting them know they could have it back if they behaved.

but they never figured it out

Romans 5:13 says,"...sin is not charged against anyone when there is no

law" So, as I had great love for man, I substituted my Son for the animals.

This is only until people of the nations learn to keep the laws naturally

(Romans 2:12-17). This would happen only when man understood

the Laws were of benefit. Then, I will do away with the sacrifice of

my Son (Daniel 12:11) and the laws put back in place-- enforceable--

Judgment will commence (... by law is the accurate knowledge of what

sin is-Romans 3:20)

Some of you want to judge God? Are you aware some ancient people

ate their parents when they started getting old, and roasted their children

in fire?

spinner "the answers do exist"

Edited by - spinner on 9 December 2002 14:3:4

Robdar

I had the ransom sacrifice discussion with a Catholic boyfriend one time. He, of course believed in the Trinity.

He said that God did not have to make the sacrifice but he did it to show that he was not above suffering human death. He did it to make amends to us. He did it so that humans would understand him better.

Living the life of earthly Jesus was his way to show us how to triumph over the sufferings of life and death. As my friend put it to me, Love is the way to overcome. As Jesus, God taught us the commandment of love. As the sacrificial lamb, God taught us to not fear death.

If what my friend said was true, it seems to me that God allowed himself to die to redeem himself to us. Not to redeem us to him.

Love,

Robyn

LizardSnot

I believe that there existed a man who walked the earth named Jesus.

Whether or not Jesus was the Son of God or God with us cant really be proven unless we all believe the bible is an accurate historical document.

He wasn't too good to talk to anyone...he was generous...he was honest...patient...kind...clever...life of the party *kewl 1st miracle.

I believe that Jesus was tortured to death on a cross I mean really, that sort of thing did happen back then didnt it? Why make it up?

Jesus the man, fulfilled a number of prophecies from the old testament such as, his bones werent broken and they cast lots for his clothes, his hands and feet were peirced...stuff like that. Still doesnt prove anything, I know.

The only point I want to make here is that just say Jesus wasnt really the messiah

How many people do you know that believe in helping others so much that he/she would suffer being tortured to death rather than giving up on his/her ideals or good intentions?

I dont know anyone like that. Maybe some of you do.

It would be silly for me to say that I wished there were more people like that...because then...uh...they would be here long right?

But, if you and I and everyone else cared about our fellow man 'half' as much as Jesus didthe world would be a better place.

Edited by - LizardSnot on 9 December 2002 15:49:29

avishai

How many people do you know that believe in helping others so much that he/she would suffer being tortured to death rather than giving up on his/her ideals or good intentions?

Gee, I dunno? Gahndi? Socrates? lots of people. You want "gods" ? Krishna? Odin? Mithras? LS, theres tons of examples. I'll get more if you need 'em, willingness to be a martyr does not a god make

LizardSnot

Jesus...Ghandi...Socrates and how ever many you can come up with...would still be a minority in this world dont you think?

SixofNine

I think I care about my fellow man as much as Jesus did. That Jesus "care" for his fellow man is not extraordinary is what this thread is all about. It just wasn't such a big deal.

Also, many, perhaps most, JW's are willing to " suffer being tortured to death rather than giving up on his/her ideals or good intentions". And many others besides witnesses are willing to do the same thing.

Jesus Sacrifice - How Stupid and Illogical

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