by Hamas 77 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
For those who have posted to this thread so far,
I just have a question....If we can't trust the 'authorities' who have given us the bible, how can we trust the 'authorities who teach that the bible is uninspired? Aren't you trusting man, as well? Isn't it men who wrote those books? Thanks, dj
just have a question....If we can't trust the 'authorities' who have given us the bible, how can we trust the 'authorities who teach that the bible is uninspired? Aren't you trusting man, as well? Isn't it men who wrote those books? Thanks, dj
The "authorities" who gave me/us the bible, have proven untrustworthy.
Other than that, it isn't really a matter of trusting or not trusting authorities. I looked for evidence that the bible came from a supernatural source, and found none.
What I found instead, is a book that reflects the culture of the men (primarily) who lived at the time of it's writing, a book that reflects those men's superstitions, and more importantly, values. A book that presents uncivilized, savage, patriarchal, racist behaviour as being sanctioned, even advocated, by God.
Thanks Six,
I do feel that the bible has some very supernatural inspiration. I find it to be incomprehensible that man is or ever has been as wise as some of the things in the scriptures. I suppose that one example is in Job, where the earth is defined as a sphere far before Columbus was born. I feel that the teachings about conduct are invaluable. I am amazed at their accuracy and far-sighted wisdom. Whenever I have applied any of the teachings in my daily life, not only have I been able to benefit others but I have also seen how my life has been enriched. The bible teachings and the gift of salvation have been a blessing in my life since I left the jw's and learned to go to Christ. I have had experiences of peace and joy and many many answered prayers that I cannot contribute to coincidence or any other reason. I may take your advice and someday look further into learning more about the bible writers. I doubt that it will shake my faith in God, do you? I used to question God but I have been answered more than sufficiently and it was quite humbling. I have learned and am very grateful to have received the gift of respecting the potter and I take relief in realizing that I am only clay. I am happy to abide in his teachings as much as I am able, and I lean on him for strength to sustain my faith. I've found out the hard way that to disobey is the hard road but to yield to the spirit within is life in it's fullest capacity. I used to walk in darkness and I was always seeking more and more pleasure in my flesh. I was never fulfilled. I have found to walk in the light of Christ has fulfilled my spirit. It would be impossible for me to want to go backwards. Take care six, dj
Blue.....excellent point...I have believed the trinity, but again, while using the bible to try to prove it is incorrect, I totally could see how other religions would use it to prove it is right....then I saw all the other questions that the dubs didnt seem to be able to answer for me. For me it came down to my reasoning that the Bible is just written by imperfect men. Maybe they were "inspired" but I don't believe there was any supernatural being whispering what to write in the authors' ears.
I think we make things vastly too complex, and for no good reason.
Jesus clearly said that the "...kingdom of heaven is within you...," as in the Spirit of God lives within the mind of each of His sons. And let's be clear. I am NOT in any way an ADOPTED SON OF GOD. That concept is JW nonsense and is exactly why they deliberately mistranslated the scripture quoted above. If they were to admit that each of us has a DIRECT relationship with God, then what do we need the FDS or any other organization of men for? Easy, we don't need them AT ALL.
So. We are each of us directly the sons and daughters of God. And the Fatherhood of God implies the brotherhood of men, all of them; not one little elititist group of 6 million.
The Master further left us rules, two of them to be exact: Love God with a whole soul; and love your neighbor as yourself.
The rest is up to us. And it matters not what the secular history of the Jews says; nor the writings in the Koran; nor the Upanishads or Bagavhad Gita or Rig Veda. Pitch all that stuff. Jesus came here to show us how its done. He preached the releasing truth that we are all God's Children, every one of us. And he showed us what a life dedicated to loving God and loving your neighbor looks like. All we have to do is DO IT.
And we can do it absent the hateful spewings of the senile octogenarians who run the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society. Yes, it is appropriate to call a spade a spade and warn people about the dangers of this or any other man-made organization.
But The Master was right: his yoke is easy and his load is light. Now if we'd just get with the program and cease and desist straining out the gnats in the bible we'd all be better off.
Or at least them's my two cents.
francois
Francois,
Spanner, did I say that? Did I say any of that? No. I don't believe that Jesus Christ is any part of the Trinity.
OK, keep your hair on, old boy! Just a bit of ribbing!
Spanner
May you all have peace... and may I respond? Thank you!
1. The Bible is NOT inspired. Only scripture is "inspired." What is "scripture"? That which is inspired. Inspired means to be IN THE SPIRIT when the writer writes it... and since "in spirit"... in the presence of GOD. And therefore, while in the presence of God told BY God (and not man - Luke 1:1-4)... through Christ... to "write". Therefore, only Moses, the Psalms, the Prophets (which includes books that are not apart of the "usual" Bible canon(s)), and the Revelation... are "inspired." How do we know?
a. My Lord himself quoted "scripture" and taught his discples from them.
Luke 24:27, 44
b. A man, Theophilus, commissioned Luke to write, and not NOT God... and Luke got his information from OTHERS (most of whom were "there")... NOT God. Neither Luke nor the other apostles - Matthew, Mark (Peter's son), Paul, Peter, or James - were inspired. John was the only one.
Luke 1:1-4 Revelation 1:19; 4:2
2. The scriptures... and therefore, the Bible, has been tampered with. It has been altered, misrendered, mistranslated, mistranliterated and misinterpreted... sometimes purposefully so. How do we know? Because the Bible itself says that it was, and contains a warning against those who would do so. If it couldn't/wasn't going to be done, there would be no need for a warning:
Jeremiah 8:8 Revelation 22:18
2. How do we know what is TRUE then? There is only ONE "way": ASK THE TRUTH... and then LISTEN when he speaks!
John 5:39, 40 John 14:6 Proverbs 8:4-11 Matthew 17:3 John 10:27 Hebrews 12:25
4. God is NOT a "trinity". He is, rather, the Father, the Holy One of Israel, JAH... of Armies... the One who BEGAT (gave life to)... His SON... my Lord... JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH.
5. The Son - JAHESHUA (Jah Saves) MISCHAJAH (chosen of JAH)... is the one who "comes in the NAME of JAH" - the free son, whose "mother" is NOT a slave (the earth/physical), but the "free wife"... Jerusalem Above/spiritual). Although he originally came to us through the flesh of Mary, he was "born"... in the manner of the SPIRIT.
6. Holy Spirit is two (2) separate and distinct things:
a. holy spirit - the "life giving force" of God: His "blood," "semen", "breath", "regenerative power."
b. The Holy Spirit - what His Son BECAME... upon ascending into heaven: "a life-giving spirit." Thus, the Holy Spirit IS my Lord, AS a spirit! He is the Truth, and the Holy Spirit is... the SPIRIT OF THE TRUTH. That is why, when my Lord said, "that one will teach you all things," it was HE... that taught Paul and the others.
That is why my Lord had to "go away" - if he stayed HERE... he could not have been GLORIFIED so as to become a LIFE-GIVING SPIRIT. What he did in the flesh was temporary! He had to become a spirit... in order to grant blessings that would be EVERLASTING.
Why did he refer to himself in the 3rd person? Because... he did not "exalt" HIMSELF... but waited until the FATHER... exalted him! He knew that he was "nothing" until the Father made him "something." For he knew that he could, at any time, have done his own "will" ("remove this cup from me")... rather than God's. It was not "done"... until he GAVE UP his spirit! ("It has been accomplished!")
7. The Father... JAH... is "one". Deuteronomy 6:4, 5
8. The "union" of God and Christ - it is the same as the union of US and Christ... and of the BRIDE and Christ. In the flesh, when the flesh JOINS, man and woman become ONE flesh. In the SPIRIT... when God and Christ join... or we and Christ join... or we and God join... by means of Christ... we become... ONE SPIRIT. It is through this union, then, that OUR spirit... bears witness with GOD's spirit. Because... we are "one". Joined. In union. Unified. Of one mind... and one spirit... through Christ.
John 14:6 Romans 8:9, 10
May you have ears... to hear what the Spirit and the Bride KEEP saying:
"Come! Take 'life's water'... free!"
Servant to the Household of God, Israel, and those who go with them... and a slave of Christ,
SJ
dear aguest,
whenever i have read your words they have resonated with me. thank you also for answering my question on baptism the other day which i did not discover until days later.
if the bible has been tampered with, if not all is inspired, how are we to listen for the truth. through prayer? does God speak directly to you?
Well, my eyes were opened to the prospect of living in Heaven, and not on earth like the Dubya's preach. I have listened to plenty of audio files from people that have left the Witnesses and have became Born Again and if that floats your boat then thats great ! Yet one thing I cant get my head round is this idea of a Trinity.
Part of your trouble may be that you may have learned a false concept of the Trinity. Many people who oppose the trinity doctrine do not know what it actually teaches.
The Watchtower and othere groups have for years mis-represented the trinity as teaching that "there are three gods" or that "Jesus and the Father are the same person" or that it teaches "three gods in one person". NONE of these are what the Trinity teaches. i'll post someomore on what the trinity is really about, and why it is Biblical.
AGuest said:That is why my Lord had to "go away" - if he stayed HERE... he could not have been GLORIFIED so as to become a LIFE-GIVING SPIRIT. What he did in the flesh was temporary! He had to become a spirit... in order to grant blessings that would be EVERLASTING.
Jesus Christ still has a body of flesh.
Luke chapter 24
[36] And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
[37] But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit.
[38] And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?
[39] Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
[40] And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.
Acts chapter 2
29] Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
[30] Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
[31] He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
[32] This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
Romans chapter 1 (compare this with 2 Timothy 2:8)
1] Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,
[2] (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,)
[3] Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
[4] And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:
2 Timothy chapter 2
[7] Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things.
[8] Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel:
[9] Wherein I suffer trouble, as an evil doer, even unto bonds; but the word of God is not bound
