I cant believe this Trinity lark

by Hamas 77 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

AGuest

… may you have peace…
Here is the word you first referred to (in another thread) to transliterated as “everlasting” –
Strong's Number: 03117 Original Word- ~wy Transliterated Word Yowm Word Origin from an unused root meaning to be hot Definition day, time, year day (as opposed to night) day (24 hour period) as defined by evening and morning in Genesis 1 as a division of time a working day, a day's journey days, lifetime (pl.) time, period (general) year temporal references today yesterday tomorrow
Now, the KJV also includes Strong's Number 05769 as an asterisk, which word comes from the Hebrew root ‘alam (#05956, which I will leave you to look up) and means:
Original Word- ~lw[ Transliterated Word `owlam Word Origin 05956
Definition 1) long duration, antiquity, futurity, for ever, ever, everlasting, evermore, perpetual, old, ancient, world a) ancient time, long time (of past) b) (of future) 1) for ever, always 2) continuous existence, perpetual 3) everlasting, indefinite or unending future, eternity

Now, to be fair, I have to admit that while I do see MANY words that give evidence of a lack of ENDING (i.e., everMORE, everLASTING, indefinite, unENDING, eternity, for EVER, etc.), I see nothing that denotes a lack of BEGINNING. In FACT, a friend has pointed out to me (and it strikes me as odd that you've not mentioned) the fact that although WE are promised life... everlasting... everlasting life... eternity... etc., etc., etc., WE... had a beginning.
Nor have you mentioned that the same word is used with references to my Father's various covenants, all of which are referred to as "everlasting," and all of which... had a beginning.
The KJV translates the tetragrasmmaton YHWH as "LORD" with all capitals. I know that you disagree with this practice. However the fact remains that whether to spell out YHWH or use the all capitals "LORD", that Jesus Christ is YHWH. Psalm 93:2 is not Just talking about the Father, but also the Son, since both are YHWH.
Please know that you are in error as to what practice(s) I disagree with. It does not matter to me, for I know of which the verse the speaks. "YHWH" is not the Christ, for it is "YHWH" who said TO the Christ, "Sit at my right hand", just as David wrote. (Psalm 110:1) You, though, would have my Lord... speaking to himself... and being his own father.
And now... and I will leave off this discussion with you here at this point, dear Hooberus, for again, it is of no benefit. To you OR me.
Again, I bid you peace.
YOUR servant... and a slave of Christ,
SJ
AGuest

Just some folks having a "peaceful" discussion about... "Bible" stuff. You know how it is. So, calm 'yerself down and don't get 'yer chonies in a "bunch" - we're done. At least, I am. For now.
Peace to you... and have a great weekend!
A slave of Christ,
SJ
LittleToe

Shelby:
Couldn't agree more, dear sister.
I would just add, though, that if we take an "in-time" chronology for the appearance of the Son, we need to do the same for the Father. He can't be the Father, unless He's a father. Further, how could He be God, since that title surely requires Him to be the object of devotion?
Personally, I see all that as occuring in eternity (outside of time), so I find no difficulty in the concept. After all, surely all laws, including time, had a creator (which by definition must have been through the Word).
I have further issues with regard to the Father's love for the Son and sons, when He is the object of our WHOLE love, alongside our love of each other.
I suspect that may be a subject close to Francois' heart, but it is still hazy to me.
Your's in Yashuah...
Edited because I somehow hit the post button early again.
DJ

Hi all! I hope that you had a great Saturday as I did. Silly me, I came back to this thread..... I was just amazed to read that the Greek Scriptures were not originally in Greek. What? This is a new one for me and I must say very confusing. Is there proof of this one? The quote is below:
True, the word "other" is not in the Greek. Now, the fact that the gospels were not originally WRITTEN in Greek, but translated from Aramaic aside... I wish to state to you just what those recorded words DID say:
"All things THROUGH him came to be and apart from him came to be not but one thing."
The above quote is so familiar to me....i'ts that "THROUGH" word hard-headessness again! I no longer take the jw 'reasoning' with "through". I'll tell you why....If you read Romans (yes, get your bibles out...) Romans11:33-36. When taken into context....as I know we ALL do...lol.....This is clearly speaking of the Father. It says ...."For of Him and THROUGH Him and to Him are all things to whom be the glory forever, amen" If that doesn't end this THROUGH bickering.....nothing will! I am sure that someone will say to me...."Oh, that is YOUR bible or....that is speaking of the Son" I say hooey.......that is GOD! It says what it says and also bear in mind that in Isaiah,. the Father declares that He gives His glory to no one! He did not lie. This jw practice of bickering over words to the point of division and accusatory behavior sickens my soul. Yes, my soul....not my body. KNOCK IT OFF! Yes, remember righteous anger....you are seeing it! Ther is just so much missed by our human eyes when we become self-righteous and demand that others see our way......we miss His voice and we grieve the Spirit. I have no fear that my belief that Jesus is indeed GOD will ever lead me to sin. I do feel that this can NOT be seen unless the scales are removed from one's eyes. Patience with one another, bearing love and understanding and welcoming one who perhaps is weaker in the faith is what we as Christians do. I never once as a jw saw a beautiful flower and praise Jesus for the work of his hands, did you? Now I can! He has created all things. Praise you Lord Jesus! Love.... to all here who love my Lord, and yes....well, even those who don't! dj
hooberus

1. All things were created "through" YHWH.
Yes, Romans 11:36 shows that all things were created by by YHWH and through the YHWH. (Although the greek text does not have the divine name here, it is generally conceded that YHWH is being sopken of.) The same greek word for through [greek-dia] used in Romans 11:36 is also used in Colossians 1:16.
"For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counseller? Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again? For of him, and through [Greek-dia] him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen." Romans 11:34-36
"For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by [Greek-dia] him, and for him:" Colossians 1:16
2. The fact that all things were created by YHWH and through YHWH is also proven by verses such as Job 9:8 and Isaiah 44:24, which show that YHWH acted alone in creation.
"Which alone spreadeth out the heavens, and treadeth upon the waves of the sea. Which maketh Arcturus, Orion, and Pleiades, and the chambers of the south. Job 9:8-9
"Thus saith the LORD[Hebrew YHWH], thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD [Hebrew YHWH] that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;" Isaiah 44:24
hooberus

AGuest said: It does not matter to me, for I know of which the verse the speaks. "YHWH" is not the Christ, for it is "YHWH" who said TO the Christ, "Sit at my right hand", just as David wrote. (Psalm 110:1) You, though, would have my Lord... speaking to himself... and being his own father.

The trinity teaches that the Father and the Son are the same God, yet different persons. It does not teach that they are are the same person.
YHWH can be in more than one place at the same time, hense the Son can sit at the right hand of the Father and still be YHWH.
YHWH can be in more than one place at the same time.
"Then the LORD [Hebrew YHWH] rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD [Hebrew YHWH] out of heaven;" Genesis 19:24
"Can any hide himself in secret places that I shall not see him? saith the LORD. Do not I fill heaven and earth? saith the LORD [Hebrew YHWH]."
The Father is YHWH
"I will declare the decree: the LORD [Hebrew YHWH] hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee." Psalm 2:7
The Son is YHWH
"In the year that king Uzziah died I saw also the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple. Above it stood the seraphims: each one had six wings; with twain he covered his face, and with twain he covered his feet, and with twain he did fly. And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is the LORD [Hebrew YHWH] of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory. And the posts of the door moved at the voice of him that cried, and the house was filled with smoke. Then said I, Woe is me! for I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips: for mine eyes have seen the King, the LORD [Hebrew YHWH] of hosts." Isaiah 6:1-5
"These things said Esaias, when he saw his glory, and spake of him. Nevertheless among the chief rulers also many believed on him; but because of the Pharisees they did not confess him, lest they should be put out of the synagogue:" John 12:41-42
"Sanctify the LORD [Hebrew YHWH] of hosts himself; and let him be your fear, and let him be your dread. And he shall be for a sanctuary; but for a stone of stumbling and for a rock of offence to both the houses of Israel, for a gin and for a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem. And many among them shall stumble, and fall, and be broken, and be snared, and be taken." Isaiah 8:13-15
"Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded. Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner, And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed." 1Peter 2:6-8.
hooberus

AGuest said: Now, to be fair, I have to admit that while I do see MANY words that give evidence of a lack of ENDING (i.e., everMORE, everLASTING, indefinite, unENDING, eternity, for EVER, etc.), I see nothing that denotes a lack of BEGINNING. In FACT, a friend has pointed out to me (and it strikes me as odd that you've not mentioned) the fact that although WE are promised life... everlasting... everlasting life... eternity... etc., etc., etc., WE... had a beginning.
The scripture doesn't just say that Jesus is everlasting (ie: will live forever like us), it also says that He is from everlasting (ie: has always existed).
AGuest

May you ALL have peace!
And may you know that it truly was not my intent to engage in "bickering"... but provide to all who demand it, a REASON for my hope. With that said, I have one last thing to say, if you will permit me. Thank you! This morning, my Lord awoke with a vision, saying to me that I should share it with those who need to SEE... because they fail to HEAR. Now, you are completely FREE... to believe what you wish to believe. Before I begin, I would like to ask you all to read Daniel 7:9, 13, 14. For in THAT account, you will "see" the Father, the "Ancient of Days," sitting on His throne... afterwhich someone "like a son of man"... approached and gained access BEFORE the Ancient of Days, who was brought UP CLOSE before Him. And that someone, was my Lord, the SON... who was GIVEN "rulership and dignity... and KINGDOM."
Truly, I hope that simply by what is depicted here, you will have "eyes" to "see". But, because I am a slave and my Lord has directed me, I also offer you the following: - THE FATHER- JAH of Armies is a "planter" and a "cultivator" who, by means of His LIFE FORCE planted a "seed'... or, rather, BEGAT a Son (a Tree) through whom He made ALL things (branches)
Colossians 1:15, 16; Genesis 2:8 Matthew 21:33, 37; John 15:1-7
- "Begat" THE SON - JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH who is, by GOD'S SPIRIT... The Holy Spirit The Tree of Life The True Vine The Root of Jesse Sprout The HEAD of the Body The Fine Shepherd The High Priest TO God And King of Kings Matthew 3:17; 8:29; 16:16; John 3:16; 14:6, 17, 26; 2 Corinthians 3:16; John 10:36, 17:1; 11:27, 41; John 4:10, 14; 7:37, 38; John 15:1; John 10:14, 15; Zecharaiah 3:8, 9; Isaiah 11:1, 10; Romans 15:12; Colossians 1:18; Ephesians 5:30; Hebrews 8:1, 3
He is the TREE, VINE, ROOT, planted by the Father... so that HIS flesh is the "leaves" of the Tree of Life, of which we must EAT... and HIS blood is the "water" which flows from the river of which we must DRINK in order to LIVE FOREVER.
Revelation 22:2-5, 17; John 7:37, 38; John 4:10, 14
Holy spirit [not THE Holy Spirit] is God's... His "blood", "semen," "regenerative power," LIFE FORCE. He put that SEMEN Mary, and produced a being with HIS BLOOD in him... and granted that being His LIFE FORCE, so that such One, my Lord, could USE that force... to grant (regenerate) LIFE... to "beget" sons FOR God... by means of that spirit. So that by means of HIM... God will become ALL things... to ALL people. Since is it he that "begets" us and grants us eternal life... it is he that is, in essence, our eternal "father". He is WORTHY, then, of our worship, because God GAVE ALL authority... and glory TO him.
Matthew 1:18, 20; Matthew 3:16,17; John 11:25; 14:10; 17:2, 6; Isaiah 9:6, 7
- THE 144,000 AND THE "GREAT CROWD" - are t he “little flock” and “other sheep” who, TOGETHER, make up ONE flock, for they have ONE shepherd And through HIM become A nation of Kings… and Priests From Israel and EVERY nation, tribe, tongue and people They are the BODY of Christ ... His Brothers... by means of having been "beget" NOT by the flesh (Hagar/Old Covenant) but by the SPIRIT (Sarah/New Covenant) so that they have the same FATHER (JAH) and MOTHER (Jerusalem Above - the SPIRIT realm) Revelation 5:9, 10; 7:4, 9, 15; Ephesians 2:19-21; 4:4-6; 1 Corinthians 12:12-37; Galatians 4:24-31; Romans 8:14-16; Matthew 25:34-46
These “eat from the Tree of Life” and "drink from the river/Rock Mass"... b ecause they eat the flesh of Christ and drink his blood. They DO this to (1) r atify the NEW Covenant between them and God THROUGH Christ (the mediator); (2) b e resurrected and/or changed and live forever; and (3) become co-rulers with Christ for 1,000 years.
Revelation 5:9, 10; 7:4, 9, 15; 20:4-6; John 10:16Ephesians 1:22, 23; Romans 12:4, 5; Matthew 26:26-28; 1 Corinthians 11:23-26; John 6:48-56; 1 Corinthians 10:1-4; Exodus 12:48, 49; Numbers 11:4-6
I, myself, SJ, have written here just as my Lord has directed me to do. Whether you hear... or refrain. My GREATEST wish for love... and the peace of my Lord... be with you all. As for me, I will not return here but am moving on to complete the "work" he first gave me... Part V.
YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,
SJ
DJ

Hi all! I hope that you had a great Saturday as I did. Silly me, I came back to this thread..... I was just amazed to read that the Greek Scriptures were not originally in Greek. What? This is a new one for me and I must say very confusing. Is there proof of this one? The quote is below:
True, the word "other" is not in the Greek. Now, the fact that the gospels were not originally WRITTEN in Greek, but translated from Aramaic aside... I wish to state to you just what those recorded words DID say:
I reposted the above because Shelby did not answer her outrageous claim? I have never heard of the New testament being written in Aramaic. Has anyone ever heard that one? To assert that is true and by doing so you have given yourself permission to add words in brackets that change the original meaning......is just plain sad. Here's my favorite: [other] grrr.
wednesday

? I have never heard of the New testament being written in Aramaic. Has anyone
yes clearly remember the NT being written in both greek and aramaic.At leat that is what they said at the KH.

I cant believe this Trinity lark

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