aqwsed12345
1.It is misleading to argue a lack of consensus to justify 607 BCE. Scholars differ between 609 BCE (final Assyrian defeat at Harran) and 605 BCE (Babylonian victory at Carchemish) as the start of Babylon's 70-year period of supremacy precisely because both dates have historical significance. However, no credible scholars propose 607 BCE for Jerusalem's destruction. All reputable secular historians agree on 586/587 BCE. The uncertainty over 609 vs. 605 BCE does not support 607 BCE, as the JW argument incorrectly assumes.
The scholarly dispute concerns when Babylon's dominance began, not when Jerusalem was destroyed, which is securely dated to 586/587 BCE by overwhelming historical and archaeological evidence.
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1. Thus, because scholars cannot agree as to whether the 70 years began in either 606 or 609 BCE makes their chronology is worthless as it is based on uncertainty. If you cannot agree, then you simply do not know, whereas WT scholars, based on the biblical evidence, know for certain the date for the commencement of the 70 years. What credible scholars choose to believe is not evidence and there is simply no evidence for either 586 or 587 BCE for the date of Jerusalem's Fall or whether 605 or 608 BCE began the 70 years.
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2. The context clearly indicates a period of regional Babylonian dominance, not exclusively a 70-year desolation or exile of Judah. Notice the explicit mention of "these nations" (plural), which includes Judah but is not limited to it. Thus, Jeremiah's 70 years encompass Babylon’s political and military dominance, aligning historically from approximately 609 BCE (or 605 BCE) to Babylon’s fall in 539 BCE.
Jeremiah 29:10 supports this: the 70 years conclude when Babylon's rule ends, allowing Judah’s return—not after the return itself (537 BCE), but upon Babylon’s fall (539 BCE). Ezra and Daniel also understood the 70 years in terms of Babylon's dominance ending with its fall, not two years afterward.
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2. Clearly Jer. 25:11 and its context shows the dominance of Babylon but this verse and its content is specific to Judah alone for vs. states "concerning all the people of Judah and vs. 2 "concerning all the people of Judah and all of the inhabitants of Jerusalem".
Jer. 29:10 clearly shows that it was after the 70 years at Babylon were completed then and only then would the Jews return from Exile and that did not happen with the Fall of Babylon in 539 BCE.
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3. Historically, Babylon was punished exactly at its fall in 539 BCE by Cyrus the Great, as confirmed by numerous historical records. There is no delay or "two-year gap" in Scripture or history. Babylon lost sovereignty precisely at its conquest in 539 BCE, directly fulfilling Jeremiah's prophecy. The JW assertion that Babylon’s punishment must begin in 537 BCE is entirely artificial, unsupported historically and biblically.
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3. Babylon fell in 539 BCE, and this was a punishment and a judgment against Babylon as prophesied, but a further destruction and not just a fall was foretold in Jer. 25:1,2 which amounted to total destruction which did not happen in 539 BCE.After that Babvlon lost its staus as a world power now subject to the Medo-Persian Empire with a new king of Babylon.
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4.Refutation:
- Josephus: Josephus explicitly confirms Jerusalem’s destruction occurred in Nebuchadnezzar’s 18th regnal year, corresponding historically to 586/587 BCE. Josephus never supports 607 BCE. JW misuse of Josephus selectively distorts his clear statements (e.g., Antiquities X.7.1).
- Archaeology: Extensive archaeological excavations in Jerusalem universally confirm the destruction layers dating precisely to 586/587 BCE. No archaeological evidence supports 607 BCE.
- Astronomy: Astronomical diary VAT 4956 precisely confirms Nebuchadnezzar’s 37th year as 568/567 BCE, proving the destruction of Jerusalem occurred in 586/587 BCE (his 18th year). The JW attempts to redate VAT 4956 to 588 BCE are incorrect and discredited by independent astronomers...
- Josephus supports JW interpretation of the 70 years in terms of its nature and timing.
- Archaeology supports the fact of the desolation of Judah which indirectly supports JW interpretation of the 70 years as a period of desolation of the land.
- Astronomy through the VAT 4956 is now shown to be supportive of 607 BCE/
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5. Nebuchadnezzar's seven-year illness in Daniel 4 is nowhere described as creating a gap in Babylonian history. Babylonian administrative texts from this period show continuous governance, clearly disproving any interruption in Nebuchadnezzar’s reign. The JW insertion of a seven-year gap is a completely unsubstantiated and artificial attempt to justify their chronological misalignment.
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5. It was part of history so it is a vital piece of chronology which is based on history. Poor or inadequate history leads to poor or inaccurate chronology. The bigger issue is the Babylonian Gap of 20 years between secular/profane chronology and Bible Chronology.Do you believe that Nneb was absent from the throne for seven years?
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6. Carl Olof Jonsson extensively discusses the 70-year period, analyzing all relevant biblical texts (Jeremiah 25, 29, Daniel 9, Ezra 1, 2 Chronicles 36). He convincingly demonstrates that the 70 years were Babylon’s dominance, not Judah’s specific exile. The JW assertions grossly misrepresent Jonsson’s thorough and careful scholarship.
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6. Precisely and that is COJ's problem because he does not see through the lens that the 70 years was not just about Babylon's dominance but of Exile so he was rather short-sighted respecting the 70 years unlike the celebrated WT scholars.
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7. The biblical and historical record explicitly refutes this claim. Cyrus issued his decree to release the Jews in 538 BCE, historically attested by the Cyrus Cylinder. Most scholars agree the actual return occurred by 537 BCE. Counting back exactly 70 years aligns with Babylon’s dominance (609/605–539 BCE), not 607 BCE. The JW timeline artificially compresses historical events and misdates key events, such as Nebuchadnezzar's reign, contrary to overwhelming external evidence.
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7. The said scholar is happy that you recognize that the Jews returned home in 537 BCE which of course ended the 70 years as fortold by Jeremiah and confirmed by Ezra. Thus if we count back 70 years we arrive at 607 BCE with Babylon's dominance- beginning of the Exile to baylon and leaving a desolate land all these circumstances are composite of the 7o years.
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8. This inadvertently disproves the JWs' own claim. Jeremiah 52 clearly refers to deportations after the initial 597 BCE exile. If Jerusalem had been destroyed and made completely desolate in 607 BCE, no further deportations could have occurred years later. This passage instead confirms the multiple-stage exile and contradicts a singular 607 BCE destruction.
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8. Nonsense. Jeremiah lists three deportations during Neb's reign, which altogether confirm the historical reality of the 70 years as a period of Babylon's dominance in the Levant - exile of the Jews by means of deportations of its citizenry as exiles, thus leaving a land desolate and depopulated, which affirm the Exile of 70 years.
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9. This claim shows misunderstanding or misrepresentation. The Babylonian Chronicles (especially ABC3 and ABC4) clearly document Nabopolassar’s decisive victory over Assyria at Harran (609 BCE), firmly establishing this date historically. No interpolation is involved; rather, clear Babylonian historical records support this date explicitly.
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9. Ancient historical records do not contain modern calendrical dates, as these are inserted by the translator or scholar working on the documents.
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10. The JW "Gentile Times" prophecy depends entirely on 607 BCE, which has been comprehensively disproven historically, astronomically, archaeologically, and biblically. Even accepting symbolic "prophetic years," the foundational 607 BCE date is factually invalid. Without 607 BCE, the entire 1914 prophetic calculation collapses.
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10. False. The Gentile Times is based on 607 BCE which is well proved from the Bible, secular history and ancient astronomy to be the only authentic for the Fall of Jerusalem leading to the well-established modern history of 1914.
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The JW argument for a 607 BCE date for Jerusalem’s destruction fails at every level of scrutiny:
- It misreads Jeremiah’s prophecy.
- It contradicts explicit historical and astronomical evidence.
- It distorts scholarly research and misrepresents reputable historians.
- It artificially inserts chronological gaps without evidence.
- It selectively quotes and misrepresents historical sources like Josephus and Babylonian Chronicles.
The scholarly consensus—backed by a convergence of biblical, historical, archaeological, and astronomical evidence—is clear: Jerusalem fell in 586/587 BCE, and Babylonian supremacy (the 70 years) lasted from approximately 609 BCE to 539 BCE
The date of 607 BCE for the Fall of Jerusalem is firmly established:
Based on the 70 years prophecy of Jeremiah, history of Ezra, confirmed by Daniel as a witness to those events.
The 70 years was a definite historical period with a definite beginning and end anchored in history
The 70 years was period of Exile - a period of servitude to Babylon - a period of a devasted and depopulated land of Judah
The 70 years as described was confirmed by the Jewish historian Josephus
The date 607 BCE and its 70 years is well anchored in the chronology of the Divided Monarchy
The date 607 BCE is based on the universal acceptance of the Fall of Babylon in 539 BCE
scholar JW
