by BoogerMan 147 Replies latest watchtower bible
‘scholar’:
There are no facts that clearly establish 587 as opposed to 586 BCE for if this was the case then 587 nBCE would be universally endorsed by current scholarship.
587 BCE is actually the preferred dating in scholarship since the publication of BM 21946, and no analysis of the primary texts since then supports 586 BCE. But aside from that, the cognitive dissonance is astounding coming from someone who accepts the JW nonsense about 607 BCE.
The seven years of Neb are presented as the seven times or seen years in Dan 4.
That is not an answer to the question that was asked. Typical vapid misdirection. Which specific seven years?
The identity of the WT researchers is not disclosed but sincere inquirers could write to WT for further information.
🤣😂😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣🤣😂🤣
Back on the original purpose of this thread, which seems to have been derailed from the first reply...
Boogerman:
it-1 p. 881 Galatians, Letter to the ... According to the Bible, (which never implies let alone mentions a "governing body") the apostle Paul was used to resolve the circumcision issue.
Insight is in good ('bad') company with the Bible for its dishonest presentation of events about Paul.
According to Paul's conversion story in Acts chapter 9 (conveniently written after Paul's death), after his 'vision' of Jesus and while still blinded, he is found by Ananias in Damascus where he remains for some time (but not years), and then went to see the disciples in Jerusalem. But in Paul's version in Galatians, he "did not immediately consult with any human" (and explicitly not those in Jerusalem) and instead went off to Arabia (Galatians 1:16-17), only going to Damascus after that, and not going to Jerusalem until 3 years later (Galatians 1:18).
Okay Jeffro l will clear off 🤣🤣.
Jan from Tam
jhine:
Okay Jeffro l will clear off 🤣🤣.
You’re welcome to stay, but it’s rather odd when people go to a thread just to say they aren’t interested in the subject. I’m not remotely interested in knitting but I’m not going to go to a knitting club just to tell them knitting is a waste of time.
COJ failed to disprove 607 BCE despite his 17 lines of evidence.
Scholar, you amaze me with your logic, or lack of.
The major flaw in COJ's thesis is that he failed to recognize the historical reality of the Jewish Exile…
Which deportation or exile are you referring to? I count five. And it’s not necessary to go into details of the Jewish exile. All that’s necessary is to establish the start of Nebuchadrezzar’s kingship. Keep in mind the following:
"28 These are the people whom Nebuchadrezzar took into exile, in the seventh year, three thousand and twenty-three Judahites.
29 In the eighteenth year of Nebuchadrezzar, from Jerusalem there were eight hundred and thirty-two souls.
30 In the twenty-third year of Nebuchadrezzar, Nebuzaradan the chief of the bodyguard took Judahites into exile, seven hundred and forty-five souls. All the souls were four thousand and six hundred. (Jer. 52:27-30)
The following is according to Babylonian chronology, which fits the Bible narrative. Notice crown prince Nebuchadrezzar would only become king 605 BCE:
“Necho’s campaign in northern Syria coincides with the brief reign of Jehoahaz, who was deposed on Necho’s return shortly after 1 Tishri (late Sept) 609, at which time Jehoiakim’s accession begins. First year of Jehoiakim, Tishri 608 (Sept–Oct) to Elul 607 (Aug–Sept). Third year of Jehoiakim, Tishri 606 (Sept–Oct) to last of Elul, 605 (Oct 6). This is the twenty-first year of Nabopolasar and the accession year of Nebuchadrezzar. Battle of Carchemish, late May to early June 605; Nabopolasar’s death Aug 15/16, 605. Nebuchadrezzar’s coronation Sept 7, 605. The accession year of Nebuchadrezzar = the third year of Jehoiakim. First (regnal) year of Nebuchadrezzar = the fourth year of Jehoiakim.” See A. R. Green (1982). “The Chronology of the Last Days of Judah: Two Apparent Discrepancies.” Journal of Biblical Literature, 101, pp. 57–73.
Nabopolasar (626-605) - 21 years ****609 17th year****
Nebuchadnezzar (605-562) - 43 years ****598****597****587****582***
Awil-Marduk (562 -560) - 2 years
Neriglissar (560- 556) - 4 years
Labashi-Marduk (556-556) 9 months
Nabonidus/Belshazzar (556 - 539) -17 years
_____________
In 609, Nabopolasar's 17th year of his 21-year reign, Babylon became the 3rd world power until 539 when it was overthrown, and Medo-Persia became the 4th world power. During those 70 years (609-539) is when 'all the nations', including the Jews served Babylon.
Jehoiakim, Jehoiachin, and Zedekiah were vassal kings of Babylon and serving Babylon prior to Jerusalem's destruction. Due to rebelling against Babylon is what let to Nebuchadnezzar's invasion of Judah and siege of Jerusalem.
_____________
[24 In Je·hoiʹa·kim’s days King Neb·u·chad·nezʹzar of Babylon came against him, and Je·hoiʹa·kim became his servant for three years. However, he turned against him and rebelled. 2Then Jehovah began to send against him marauder bands of Chal·deʹans, Syrians, Moʹab·ites, and Amʹmon·ites. He kept sending them against Judah to destroy it, according to Jehovah’s word that he had spoken through his servants the prophets.]
[52 Zed·e·kiʹah was 21 years old when he became king, and he reigned for 11 years in Jerusalem.3It was because of Jehovah’s anger that these things took place in Jerusalem and in Judah, until he cast them out of his sight. And Zed·e·kiʹah rebelled against the king of Babylon.4In the ninth year of Zed·e·kiʹah’s reign, in the tenth month, on the tenth day of the month, King Neb·u·chad·nezʹzar of Babylon came with all his army against Jerusalem. They camped against it and built a siege wall all around it.5And the city was under siege until the 11th year of King Zed·e·kiʹah.]
[JR - Like many of his predecessors, Zedekiah “continued to do what was bad in the eyes of Jehovah.” (Jer. 52:1, 2) He was a subject of the Babylonians, and Nebuchadnezzar made him take an oath in Jehovah’s name that obliged him to submit to the king of Babylon. Despite that, Zedekiah eventually rebelled.
[Insight- Particularly was this domination manifest during the seventh and sixth centuries B.C.E. when Nabopolassar, a native of Chaldea, and his successors, Nebuchadnezzar II, Evil-merodach (Awil-Marduk), Neriglissar, Labashi-Marduk, Nabonidus, and Belshazzar, ruled the Third World Power, Babylon. That dynasty came to its end when “Belshazzar the Chaldean king was killed.”]
[AD- The reign of Nebuchadnezzar’s father Nabopolassar marked the start of what is called the Neo-Babylonian Empire; it ended with the reigns of Nabonidus and his son Belshazzar and the overthrow of Babylon by Cyrus the Persian.
[DP - Nebuchadnezzar, who reigned for 43 years, headed a dynasty that ruled over the Babylonian Empire.
[w65 1/1 - Evil-merodach reigned two years and was murdered by his brother-in-law Neriglissar, who reigned for four years, which time he spent mainly in building operations. His underage son Labashi-Marduk, a vicious boy, succeeded him, and was assassinated within nine months. ]
[Insight - Nabonidus - Last supreme monarch of the Babylonian Empire; father of Belshazzar. On the basis of cuneiform texts he is believed to have ruled some 17 years (556-539 B.C.E.).]
[BQA - A man named Nabonidus was king during the events recorded in Daniel chapter 5. However, Nabonidus spent much of his reign, not in Babylon, but in Arabia. Who ruled in Babylon while he was absent? “A cuneiform record states that Nabonidus entrusted the kingship to his eldest son, i.e. to Belshazzar,”]
[w53 7/15 -The rulers of Egypt were cruel, wicked men and greatly oppressed the people. Their government, which became the first world power, was a complete and miserable failure. It was conquered by Assyria, the second world power, likewise under the influence of Satan.]
[Insight - The Babylonian Chronicle B.M. (British Museum) 21901 recounts the fall of Nineveh, the capital of Assyria, following a siege carried out by the combined forces of Nabopolassar, the king of Babylon, and of Cyaxares the Mede during the 14th year of Nabopolassar (612 B.C.E.) ... According to the same chronicle, in the 14th year of Nabopolassar (612 B.C.E.), Ashuruballit (king of Assyria) attempted to continue Assyrian rule from Haran as his capital city. This chronicle states, under the 17th year of Nabopolassar (609 B.C.E.): “In the month Duuzu, Ashuruballit, king of Assyria, and a large army of Egypt who had come to his aid crossed the river Euphrates and marched on to conquer Harran.” Their campaign against Haran did not succeed. The Assyrian Empire had ended.]
[w65 6/1 - Babylon succeeded Assyria as the Third World Power.]
[Insight - By now the Medes and Persians under command of Cyrus the Great were on the march to take over control of Babylonia and become the fourth world power. During the night of October 5, 539 B.C.E. (Gregorian calendar), Babylon was seized, and Belshazzar was slain.]
Duran
Nabopolasar (626-605) - 21 years ****609 17th year****
Nebuchadnezzar (605-562) - 43 years ****598****597****587****582***
Awil-Marduk (562 -560) - 2 years
Neriglissar (560- 556) - 4 years
Labashi-Marduk (556-556) 9 months
Nabonidus/Belshazzar (556 - 539) -17 years
_____________
In 609, Nabopolasar's 17th year of his 21-year reign, Babylon became the 3rd world power until 539 when it was overthrown, and Medo-Persia became the 4th world power. During those 70 years (609-539) is when 'all the nations', including the Jews served Babylon.
Jehoiakim, Jehoiachin, and Zedekiah were vassal kings of Babylon and serving Babylon prior to Jerusalem's destruction. Due to rebelling against Babylon is what let to Nebuchadnezzar's invasion of Judah and siege of Jerusalem.
_____________
[24 In Je·hoiʹa·kim’s days King Neb·u·chad·nezʹzar of Babylon came against him, and Je·hoiʹa·kim became his servant for three years. However, he turned against him and rebelled. 2Then Jehovah began to send against him marauder bands of Chal·deʹans, Syrians, Moʹab·ites, and Amʹmon·ites. He kept sending them against Judah to destroy it, according to Jehovah’s word that he had spoken through his servants the prophets.]
[52 Zed·e·kiʹah was 21 years old when he became king, and he reigned for 11 years in Jerusalem.3It was because of Jehovah’s anger that these things took place in Jerusalem and in Judah, until he cast them out of his sight. And Zed·e·kiʹah rebelled against the king of Babylon.4In the ninth year of Zed·e·kiʹah’s reign, in the tenth month, on the tenth day of the month, King Neb·u·chad·nezʹzar of Babylon came with all his army against Jerusalem. They camped against it and built a siege wall all around it.5And the city was under siege until the 11th year of King Zed·e·kiʹah.]
[JR - Like many of his predecessors, Zedekiah “continued to do what was bad in the eyes of Jehovah.” (Jer. 52:1, 2) He was a subject of the Babylonians, and Nebuchadnezzar made him take an oath in Jehovah’s name that obliged him to submit to the king of Babylon. Despite that, Zedekiah eventually rebelled.
[Insight- Particularly was this domination manifest during the seventh and sixth centuries B.C.E. when Nabopolassar, a native of Chaldea, and his successors, Nebuchadnezzar II, Evil-merodach (Awil-Marduk), Neriglissar, Labashi-Marduk, Nabonidus, and Belshazzar, ruled the Third World Power, Babylon. That dynasty came to its end when “Belshazzar the Chaldean king was killed.”]
[AD- The reign of Nebuchadnezzar’s father Nabopolassar marked the start of what is called the Neo-Babylonian Empire; it ended with the reigns of Nabonidus and his son Belshazzar and the overthrow of Babylon by Cyrus the Persian.
[DP - Nebuchadnezzar, who reigned for 43 years, headed a dynasty that ruled over the Babylonian Empire.
[w65 1/1 - Evil-merodach reigned two years and was murdered by his brother-in-law Neriglissar, who reigned for four years, which time he spent mainly in building operations. His underage son Labashi-Marduk, a vicious boy, succeeded him, and was assassinated within nine months. ]
[Insight - Nabonidus - Last supreme monarch of the Babylonian Empire; father of Belshazzar. On the basis of cuneiform texts he is believed to have ruled some 17 years (556-539 B.C.E.).]
[BQA - A man named Nabonidus was king during the events recorded in Daniel chapter 5. However, Nabonidus spent much of his reign, not in Babylon, but in Arabia. Who ruled in Babylon while he was absent? “A cuneiform record states that Nabonidus entrusted the kingship to his eldest son, i.e. to Belshazzar,”]
[w53 7/15 -The rulers of Egypt were cruel, wicked men and greatly oppressed the people. Their government, which became the first world power, was a complete and miserable failure. It was conquered by Assyria, the second world power, likewise under the influence of Satan.]
[Insight - The Babylonian Chronicle B.M. (British Museum) 21901 recounts the fall of Nineveh, the capital of Assyria, following a siege carried out by the combined forces of Nabopolassar, the king of Babylon, and of Cyaxares the Mede during the 14th year of Nabopolassar (612 B.C.E.) ... According to the same chronicle, in the 14th year of Nabopolassar (612 B.C.E.), Ashuruballit (king of Assyria) attempted to continue Assyrian rule from Haran as his capital city. This chronicle states, under the 17th year of Nabopolassar (609 B.C.E.): “In the month Duuzu, Ashuruballit, king of Assyria, and a large army of Egypt who had come to his aid crossed the river Euphrates and marched on to conquer Harran.” Their campaign against Haran did not succeed. The Assyrian Empire had ended.]
[w65 6/1 - Babylon succeeded Assyria as the Third World Power.]
[Insight - By now the Medes and Persians under command of Cyrus the Great were on the march to take over control of Babylonia and become the fourth world power. During the night of October 5, 539 B.C.E. (Gregorian calendar), Babylon was seized, and Belshazzar was slain.]
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Your point?
scholar JW
Vidqun
Scholar, you amaze me with your logic, or lack of.
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The said scholar loves logic.
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Which deportation or exile are you referring to? I count five. And it’s not necessary to go into details of the Jewish exile. All that’s necessary is to establish the start of Nebuchadrezzar’s kingship. Keep in mind the following:
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The Exile was of 70 years duration beginning with the destruction of Jerusalem in 607 BCE and ending with the Return of the Jews in 537 BCE
Deportations:
1. Major Exile as above which included a mass deportation of Jews to Babylon
2. Deportation of 832 people from Jerusalem -Jer. 52:29
3. Deportation of 745 people from Jerusalem -Jer. 52:30
NB. The above list excludes those 3023 Jews as this deportation
was not part of the Exile
The 70 years was the Exile so it cannot be ignored as COJ has done with such omission destroys his thesis.
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The following is according to Babylonian chronology, which fits the Bible narrative. Notice crown prince Nebuchadrezzar would only become king 605 BCE:
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The quote you give is OK historically but needs a revised Chronology as it does not account for a key piece of history namely the 70 years.
scholar JW
Jeffro
That is not an answer to the question that was asked. Typical vapid misdirection. Which specific seven years?
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The fact is that Daniel refers to a period during Neb's reign in which he was vacant from the throne. This period is accepted to be a literal seven years that must be factored in any scheme of Neb's reign for Chronology. The period must be inserted after Neb's 19 th year-607 BCE and before the end of his reign so you have much to play with.
scholar JW
