Just because Jehovah had to prove His Right To Rule? I don't think so!

by liam 129 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • TonusOH
    TonusOH

    Halcon: If you can accept that there is an aspect of reality that cannot be seen, heard, touched or even proven..which are our thoughts and emotions, which are the most real parts of ourselves, then it's not a stretch to believe in the existence of God.

    I believe that god may exist, since my limited understanding of physics makes the origins of the universe seem fantastic either way. I do accept that those who have advanced physics degrees appear to make sense of it, but to me it sounds like magic. Even this approach requires that I am ignorant of the science, but I suspect I am like a great many people in this.

    If this god does exist, then this universe is most likely an experiment of some kind. This being cares about us only as data; it doesn't care about us as individuals, nor does our survival concern it at all. It launched a universe, it is learning from it, and at some point the experiment will end.

    This short and simple concept fits our current universe and our current world just fine. It answers many of the difficult questions without creating any of its own (aside from the obvious one). Once we go down the road of describing this god through a holy book, there are expectations that must be met. If there was a god that cared about our outcomes --as individuals or as a race-- it must make itself known. The fact that no religion is able to convince even half of humanity that their god is the right one --to say nothing of the differences within any religion-- makes the idea of such a god untenable.

  • Duran
    Duran
    @Duran,
    All people know God exists. There has never been a culture yet discovered without a belief in God. The evidence for God is seen by the things he has made. To deny this is to believe in miracles without a miracle worker.; which I might point out is infinitely more difficult to believe in...
    You ask this with the belief that communication is only achieved thru speech. But you know already that this isn't true in the physical world. In fact all of us here are communicating perfectly well without speech. Without making a single sound.
    "The word of God is living" for a reason.

    Truely 2 weak answers from both of you based on what I asked and y'alls ability to defend your belief.

    First, just because people believe god exist does not mean all believe in the same god. I listed 4 to 5 possible gods that are believed in.

    I am simply asking for any that believe in YHVH or Jesus (rather as 2 or one in the same) if you believe them to be the god that created everything, how can you prove that is the case and how can you disprove that the creator of everything is not a result of one of the many other gods that people believe in?

    Second, having to do with communication. You try to turn what I said and make it be about audio/sound only. And you use a caparison to us here being able to commutate with each other without sound. Your whole reply was just a waste of time and avoided answering what I asked:

    Can anyone that believes in YHVH prove that he exists? Has he ever spoken to you?

    I don't care if he spoke to you with sound/voice or not. As you point out we here speak/communicate by our writing of words.

    My question is, has YHVH or Jesus ever communicated with you personally/directly?

    Can you prove that YHVH or Jesus exists?

    I am not saying that not being able to prove their existents proves there is not a god or gods that do exist. I am just asking for the sake of showing that if it can't be proving that the god you believe in does exist, and you can't disprove that the gods that you don't believe in, that they don't exist, then how do you know that it is your god that exist, but not the other gods?

  • Sea Breeze
    Sea Breeze

    @Duran

    Havent you heard? Jesus said that he would die a sacrifical death to reconnect those who wanted it to the Source of Life. Then to prove he was God beyond any doubt he would raise himself from the dead, while he was still dead. Then he did it. To maintain a reasonal skepticism of the resurrection, all you have to do is expalin away the basic facts that most schoiars accept. The below facts are accepted by a majority of scholars who publish in this area regardless of whether or not they are atheist, Jewish, agnostic, hindu, Christian or otherwise.

    After you provide a plausible deniabiity explanation for each these facts, then all you have to do is provide some data to support the many fantastic atheist miracles they believe in that I referenced earlier:

    Matter produces information

    Order comes from Chaos

    Life comes from non-life

    Personal come from Non-Personal

    Morality comes from Nothing

    Reason comes from Non-reason

    Regarding the difference between Jesus and other God figures like Zeus, I say this:

    Two thousand years ago you could still travel to Crete and visit the tomb of Zeus, who was an actual figure at one time, as was Buddah, Mohammed, Pharohs, etc. Mount Yuchtas is the final resting place of the greatest god of the Greeks - Zeus. What makes Jesus different than these other gods, is that he is still alive. The rest are all dead. Jesus tomb was found to be empty three day after his murder.... just like he predicted. Why would anyone want to worship a dead guy when they could be adopted into the family of the living God?


    When you add it all up, by far the weakest position are the atheist miracles that have ZERO support. Perhaps that is the reason why global atheism is in steep decline and is currently around 1.8% of the world population down from 4.5% in 1970.

    By far, the strongest contender for God among the gods is Jesus. This is supported by not only his amzaing teachings, now firmly embedded in Western culture; but more specifically his prediction of self-resurrection and his historical success in performing such a feat, a feat that ONLY the Creator could do.

  • Halcon
    Halcon
    Duran- I don't care if he spoke to you with sound/voice or not. As you point out we here speak/communicate by our writing of words. My question is, has YHVH or Jesus ever communicated with you personally/directly?

    My apologies, I believed you were asking if God had literally called my phone to talk to me. You are asking if he has spoken to me on a spiritual level then, meaning has he spoken to my heart?

    Absolutely he has, his word is living. For example every time I read a gospel he speaks to my heart. So much so that it moves me to take action.

    I am just asking for the sake of showing that if it can't be proving that the god you believe in does exist, and you can't disprove that the gods that you don't believe in, that they don't exist, then how do you know that it is your god that exist, but not the other gods?

    This is a very logical question. The answer is, of course all the other gods exist. Don't forget, the scriptures state God created countless spirits before he ever got to man. And you may recall that many decided they wanted nothing to do with their Creator. The spirit 'world' does not consist of just one spirit.

  • Duran
    Duran

    @Duran
    Havent you heard? Jesus said that he would die a sacrifical death to reconnect those who wanted it to the Source of Life. Then to prove he was God beyond any doubt he would raise himself from the dead, while he was still dead. Then he did it.

    then all you have to do is provide some data to support the many fantastic atheist miracles they believe in

    It must really suck to be you. How old are you? It is amazing that you can even put a sentence together. I can't believe people can be as foolish as you are.

    Why do you keep speaking about atheist? Not believing in Jesus does not = being an atheist if one believes a god does exist/is the explanation of how we are here.

    Is this a fact, a guy named Muhammad said he got revelations from god and then related them to others to write down and that is what became the Koran and the start of Islam...so I guess that is the religion/belief we are to have, right?

    Is this a fact, a guy named Joesph was given gold plates by an angel and told to copy what was written on them and then the angel took back the gold plates leaving Joesph with just the copies which became the book of Mormon...so I guess that is the religion/belief we are to have, right?

    My apologies, I believed you were asking if God had literally called my phone to talk to me. You are asking if he has spoken to me on a spiritual level then, meaning has he spoken to my heart?
    Absolutely he has, his word is living. For example every time I read a gospel he speaks to my heart. So much so that it moves me to take action.


    You're as bad as SB.

    If you say that about reading a gospel but a Muslim or Morman says the same when they read the Koran or Book of Morman, do you believe god is speaking to their heart as well?

  • Halcon
    Halcon
    Tonus -I don't see what difference this makes.

    Well this was what we began discussing here, why must there be any suffering and punishment? We've established that God is both capable of giving eternal punishment and eternal reward, and that the choice is ours. So will we choose heaven instead of suffering? God promises us no suffering or punishment when we choose him.

    We may not like our choices, but we've already also established that he is superior to man, he dictates the rules.

    Now thankfully, it appears that God also has given us our entire human lifetime to decide.

  • Halcon
    Halcon
    If you say that about reading a gospel but a Muslim or Morman says the same when they read the Koran or Book of Morman, do you believe god is speaking to their heart as well?

    Didn't we already establish that there exists more than one spirit?

  • Duran
    Duran
    God promises us no suffering or punishment when we choose him.

    So, you are saying that there are NO people alive right now that have choosing him that are suffering right now in their life's, is that right?

    Didn't we already establish that there exists more than one spirit?

    So, other spirits are responsible for the writing of the Koran and Morman book? And those spirits are talking to their hearts?

    If that is the case, then does that mean that the spirit/god that is behind the writing of the Hebrew Scriptures is not the same as the one behind the Greek Scriptures?

  • Sanchy
    Sanchy

    Yahweh directly murdered children. If Yahweh exists, then he is evil, as per his own moral definition.

    I would want nothing to do with such an evil entity

  • Halcon
    Halcon
    Duran - So, you are saying that there are NO people alive right now that have choosing him that are suffering right now in their life's, is that right?

    No. Tonus and I are discussing everlasting suffering and everlasting reward.

    If that is the case, then does that mean that the spirit/god that is behind the writing of the Hebrew Scriptures is not the same as the one behind the Greek Scriptures?

    So far, I've found no reason to believe that.

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit