Is Jesus the Creator?

by Sea Breeze 405 Replies latest watchtower bible

Sea Breeze

Rattigan,
Your mind is simply ruined. I know you can read and understand the English language.
He did not say that he would be resurrected in 3 days.
Wrong..... that is just EXACTLY what he said he would do. And, that he would do it himself!
I lay down my life—only to take it up again. 18 No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. - John 10: 17-18
So the Jews said to him, “What sign do you show us for doing these things?” 19 Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.” 20 The Jews then said, “It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and will you raise it up in three days?” 21 But he was speaking about the temple of his body. 22 When therefore he was raised from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this, and they believed the Scripture and the word that Jesus had spoken. - John 2: 18-22
It was John who added " he was talking about the temple of his body."
"All scripture is inspired" .... remember? Your willingness to characterize apostles as liars and to eliminate scriptures that do not support your heresy can only be described as breathtaking indifference towards the word of God.
Duran

SB, your little chart has the be the most idiotic thing to every be posted here.
Do you have a body, emotion, mind, will, and spirit? If so, then by your reasoning you must be God or a god. Which are you?
Please explain how Jesus can have ALL POWER IN HEAVEN AND EARTH while and the same time declare the Father is greater than he.
Because he was giving it by his father. God is the one that subjected all things under Jesus but it is clear that God is not subjected to Jesus.
[18 Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying: “All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth.]
[ 27 For God “subjected all things under his feet.” But when he says that ‘all things have been subjected,’ it is evident that this does not include the One who subjected all things to him.]
[ 28 You heard that I said to you, ‘I am going away and I am coming back to you.’ If you loved me, you would rejoice that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I am.]
[3 But I want you to know that the head of every man is the Christ; in turn, the head of a woman is the man; in turn, the head of the Christ is God.]
How can Jesus raise himself from the dead, while dead, without being God?
First you have to ask yourself can God die.
And Jesus did not raise himself from the dead, God did:
[ 9 For if you publicly declare with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and exercise faith in your heart that God raised him up from the dead, you will be saved.]
[ 30 But God raised him up from the dead,]
[24 But God resurrected him by releasing him from the pangs of death, because it was not possible for him to be held fast by it.]
[15 whereas you killed the Chief Agent of life. But God raised him up from the dead, of which fact we are witnesses.]
[24 but also for our sake, to whom it will be counted, because we believe in Him who raised Jesus our Lord up from the dead.]
Yea, he was God alright. No doubt about it.
"I AND THE FATHER ARE ONE" - JESUS
How are they ONE, context matters...
[20 “I make request, not concerning these only, but also concerning those putting faith in me through their word, 21 so that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in union with me and I am in union with you, that they also may be in union with us, so that the world may believe that you sent me. 22 I have given them the glory that you have given me, in order that they may be one just as we are one. 23 I in union with them and you in union with me, in order that they may be perfected into one, so that the world may know that you sent me and that you loved them just as you loved me.]
Sea Breeze

You just cant stand it that the bible says says that Jesus raised himself from the dead can you?
I lay down my life—only to take it up again. 18 No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. - John 10: 17-18
So the Jews said to him, “What sign do you show us for doing these things?” 19 Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.” 20 The Jews then said, “It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and will you raise it up in three days?” 21 But he was speaking about the temple of his body. 22 When therefore he was raised from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this, and they believed the Scripture and the word that Jesus had spoken. - John 2: 18-22
Nothing you can do will remove these verses from the bible, nothing.
Of couse the bible says that God raised Jesus from the dead! That's my point! When Jesus raised himself from the dead like he said he was going to do, God did it!
First you have to ask yourself can God die.
Of course God can die, this is what he did for you and me and everyone else that would like to be adopted as a son or daughter.
the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood. - Acts 20: 28
God Bleeds .
Have you ever even tried to read the bible without a Satanic WT publication to tell you what to think?
your little chart has the be the most idiotic thing to every be posted here.

Please list the scriptures on the chart that you consider "idiotic".
Earnest

Vienne, thanks for raising this subject again. I found the inscription very interesting and believe we should follow the truth wherever it leads. However, the inscription is quite unusual in several respects. The Israel Antiquities Authority published a report on the building - A Christian Prayer Hall of the Third Century CE at Kefar Othnay (Legio) - and there reported on the inscription, saying (p.41) "... the formula 'God Jesus Christ' is as a rule absent from Byzantine inscriptions, which always refer to the Savior as 'Lord Jesus Christ' or 'Christ our God' ".
Could it mean anything other than "God Jesus Christ" ? If we break down the nomen sacrum, they read "theo" (θῷ), in the dative case meaning "to God" or "to the God", "Iesou" (Ἰῦ), the genitive form of Jesus' name i.e. "of Jesus", and "christo" (Χῷ) which is also in the dative case and means "to Christ". So a straight-forward translation would be :
"The god-loving Akeptous has offered the table to [the] God of Jesus [and] to Christ as a memorial".
Any other translation has to account for the expression "theo Iesou" (to God of Jesus) which is certainly more in line with the christology of this period.
Sea Breeze

Earnest,
Are you trying to say that the inscription means anything less than "Jesus is God"?" Because that what all the experts say.
This Greek magazine agrees that the mosaic says it is to God Jesus Christ. Surely they understand their own language. Even Jewish sources agree this refers to Jesus as God. Surely, they would be the first to deny this discovery if there was the slightest doubt of its meaning.
Another inscription on the mosaic credits Gaianus, also known as Porphyrius, a Roman centurion, for funding the mosaic as an act of generosity.
So, contrary to the Watchtower, other active duty military employees were Christians besides Cornelius.
Duran

Please list the scriptures on the chart that you consider "idiotic".
When did I say the Scriptures are 'idiotic', I said your chart and reasoning is!
Why don't you answer this:
Do you have a body, soul (mind, emotion, will), and spirit? If so, then by your reasoning you must be God or a god. Which are you?
New International Version For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. -Hebrews 4:12
New International Version May God himself, the God of peace, sanctify you through and through. May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. - 1 Thessalonians 5:23
New International Version God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.” - John 4:24
_____________________
And why do you edit the Scriptures you cite?
I lay down my life—only to take it up again. 18 No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. - John 10: 17-18
New International Version The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life—only to take it up again. No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father.” - John 10: 17-18
Earnest

Sea Breeze, I have not read of any experts who discussed the fact that in the expression "God Jesus Christ", "Jesus" is in the genitive case, which has to mean "God of Jesus". This is Greek101, unless you can suggest an alternative translation which takes the genitive case into account there is nothing to discuss.
As for the inscription which credits Gaianus, also known as Porphyrius, a Roman centurion, for funding the mosaic as an act of generosity, this is hardly surprising as there was a Roman camp right next to the village. More than likely, in my opinion, his family lived in the village and probably attended the prayer hall. In fact, another inscription memorialises four women who may have been related to him. I certainly agree it seems members of the Roman army were allowed to be part of the Christian community (as were members of Caesar's household), but the army served in both an administrative and a military capacity so that may be reflected in the Christian position. A bit like our civil service, if I was to draw any modern comparison with their function at that time and place.
Sea Breeze

Ernest,
I'm having trouble understanding your point. Are you suggesting that all the sources that say this insription refers to JESUS AS GOD are wrong?
@ Duran
When did I say the Scriptures are 'idiotic', I said your chart and reasoning is!
The chart simply graphically represents the scripture citations that are listed on it. If it is idiotic, which of the scripture verses do you think makes it idiotic?
Duran

The chart simply graphically represents the scripture citations that are listed on it.
Okay, so none of the Scriptures are idiotic and neither is the chart... so now will you answer:
Do you have a body, soul (mind, emotion, will), and spirit? If so, then by your reasoning you must be God or a god. Which are you?
And why do you edit the Scriptures you cite?
"Jesus" is in the genitive case, which has to mean "God of Jesus"
[ 17 Jesus said to her: “Stop clinging to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. But go to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God.’”]
Jesus said he had a God. Whomever that God is would be the 'God of Jesus'. Whomever Jesus' God is would also be the God of his brothers.
___________________
This Greek magazine agrees that the mosaic says
The mosaic’s symbolism
The mosaic also features fish imagery, an important symbol in early Christianity. The Greek word for fish, ΙΧΘΥΣ (Ichthys), forms an acronym for “Jesus Christ, Son of God, Savior.”
ICTUS :
Fish in Christianity – It is symbol of Jesus. It was used as a secret cipher by early Christians. ICTUS is formed from initials of words in Greek sentence "Iesous Christos Theou Uios Soter". It means "Jesus Christ God's Chosen Son".#archaeohistories pic.twitter.com/l17mJWphOQ
— Archaeo – Histories (@archeohistories) January 6, 2022

I = Iesous = Jesus
CH = Christos = Christ
TH = Theou = God’s
Y = Yios = Son
S = Soter = Savior
Earnest

Sea Breeze, newspaper headlines are made to draw readers, but the evidence is in front of your eyes. Either explain that "Iesou" (Ἰῦ) is not the genitive case of "Jesus", or if it is then explain how it could be translated in any way other than "God of Jesus".

Is Jesus the Creator?

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