Who raised Jesus from the dead?

by Blotty 98 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  Sea Breeze

  This game of ‘if you don’t know the exact reason, then whatever I say is the right explanation (or even plausible)’ really is very dull.

  Jeffro,

  You are the one that appears to be playing games with logic Jeffro. Are you a committed atheist?
  
  Specifically, you are erecting a straw man here. This is incorrect thinking.... something that people with a cult background struggle with. The question is how a person shortly before death can become completely lucid when the brain is severely destroyed? So far you have have not provided ANY guesses at all.

  "There are a number of cases reported where patients who were dying of malignant tumours that destroyed almost the entirety of the brain, confirmed by radiological investigations like CT scans and MRI, waking up and discussing their lives and imminent death, lucidly". Article

  Do these facts better fit a materialist view where consciousness is said to be ONLY a product of physical brain function? Or, do they better fit a biblical view where consciousness is said to be separate from the body, especially at death?
  
  Here is just one example out of thousands: A person clinically dies on the operating table and their consciousness leaves their body. She sees various doctors, sees where they put things and even drifts outside the hospital above the roof and sees a particualr kind of tennis show on the roof.
  
  Later upon reviving, she relates these details and even describes the color of shoe on the roof. When checked out, all the details she relates while out of her body are found to be accurate.

  Please explain these facts from a material naturalistic view:
  
  1. The case of Anna in the video I posted on page 2 of this thread

  2. Cases of seeing things while out of their body later verified to be accurate

  3. Cases of verified brain dead patients acting and speaking completely normally shortly before death
• 

  Jeffro

  Sea Breeze:

  So far you have have not provided ANY guesses at all.

  Why would I need to? I don’t need to offer any speculative alternatives to your superstitions. You need to provide evidence for your claims. Anecdotes are not actually ‘verified reports’, but even if they were, you still have no evidence that it has anything to do with a ‘soul’. All you’re really left with is that you don’t actually know the real explanation for these claimed occurrences either, on top of your original unverified religious superstitions.

  Your claims that I’m not being logical or that it is due to a ‘cult background’ or that ‘if i can’t think of a materialist explanation then there isn’t one’ are incorrect and tedious appeals to pride. (‘If you’re not a neurology expert, then it’s probably souls.’ 😂 🤦‍♂️)

  By what mechanism do ‘souls’ supposedly interact with the body? How did you rule out time travelers or aliens or fairies or curses or any other made up thing to establish that ‘souls’ are the best explanation?
• 

  Sea Breeze

  Why would I need to?

  Because of the facts Jeffro. Just the facts. The ones you ignore.
  
  Are you an atheist by the way?
  
  
• 

  Jeffro

  🤦‍♂️
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  Jeffro

  Sea Breeze:

  Because of the facts Jeffro. Just the facts.

  So… I should speculate wildly about anecdotes because of… the facts… You aren’t making any sense at all.

  The fact is, you don’t know that souls exist, and you don’t know that souls are the actual explanation for any of the anecdotes
• 

  Sea Breeze

  Are you an atheist Jeffro?
  
  I happen to believe that atheists and Christians can get along quite well. Here's an atheist / Christian book club where each are able to discuss their views after reading a book favorable to their side. Doesn't that sound fascinating?
• 

  Jeffro

  Why do you keep diverting to irrelevant ad hominem?

  By what mechanism do ‘souls’ supposedly interact with the body? How did you rule out time travelers or aliens or fairies or curses or any other made up thing to establish that ‘souls’ are the best explanation?
  
• 

  Sea Breeze

  @Jeffro Do you really believe that if I ask you if you are an atheist, that amounts to an ad hominem attack?
  
  C'mon Jeffro. Get off your high horse. That is a crazy thing to say. I have no problem stating that I am a Christian. What harm is it to at least provide some definition here on your part; especially since you have made the following vast claims on this thread?
  
  

  1."No one raised Jesus from the Dead

  2. the 'gospels' are widely regarded by scholars as historical, are simply false

  3. None of that has any basis in reality whatsoever. (conscious soul)

  4. Beliefs about consciousness independent of a functioning physical body are just made up nonsense

  experiences that are no more ‘real’ than a dream

  5. This is a plain old argument from ignorance.

  6. I don’t need to offer any speculative alternatives to your superstitions.

  Certainly someone who has as many strong opinions as you do would have an opinion on whether or not God exists. I believe you are very likely to have an opinion on this topic. Why wouldn't you want disclose whether not you believe God exists on a forumn that deals specifically with theological and philosophical views and on a thread dealing with the existence of God?
  

  The facts I've presented haven't changed since we started this discussion.

  1. The case of Anna in the video I posted on page 2 of this thread

  2. Cases of seeing things while out of their body later verified to be accurate

  3. Cases of verified brain dead patients acting and speaking completely normally shortly before death

  Here's the question you keep dodging:

  
  Do these facts better fit a materialist view where consciousness is said to be ONLY a product of physical brain function? Or, do they better fit a biblical view where consciousness is said to be separate from the body, especially at death?

  Or, do you consider yourself beyond the reach of scrutiny of your claims from others?
  
• 

  Jeffro

  Do these facts better fit a materialist view where consciousness is said to be ONLY a product of physical brain function? Or, do they better fit a biblical view where consciousness is said to be separate from the body, especially at death?

  False dichotomy, argument from ignorance.
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  Jeffro

  Do these facts better fit a materialist view where consciousness is said to be ONLY a product of physical brain function? Or, do they better fit a view where time travelling aliens intervene to restore the body, especially at death?

  Do these facts better fit a materialist view where consciousness is said to be ONLY a product of physical brain function? Or, do they better fit a view where shamans remove a curse from the body, especially at death?