Sea Breeze, you haven't provided any documentation in support of your claim of "Cases of verified brain dead patients acting and speaking completely normally shortly before death". What you even mean of "brain dead ... shortly before death"? Do you mean they became brain dead, later their brains became alive again, and even later the patients the became fully dead? If so, where is your documentation for such. I have read
from scientific sources that no one who was truly brain dead ever came
back to life and that no one who was truly brain dead ever
regained consciousness and/or speaking ability. Where is your evidence? Does it merely consist of anecdotal reports of unverifiable claims, instead of scientifically documented evidence?
Sea Breeze and other readers, note what the medical science says about those who are truly brain dead.
https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/news/articles/the-challenges-of-defining-and-diagnosing-brain-death says the following.
"The panel was moderated by anesthesiologist and critical care specialist Robert Stevens,
who says the line between life and death, once clearly perceptible in
the form of a beating heart, is now sometimes harder to see because of
advances in lifesaving technologies.
The modern intensive care unit can keep a person with severe brain
injuries alive, he says, but may also mask evidence that the person has
died. The shift from a deep coma to brain death—permanent cessation of
all brain function—may not be immediately obvious to an untrained
observer. Yet recognizing this transition from life to death is critical
for families, the medical team and potential organ recipients.
When a patient dies, doctors stop treatment and instead focus on organ
viability. The body is kept on life-support machinery if the patient was
a registered organ donor or while the family makes decisions about
organ donation.
... The consultant performs a full neurological examination to determine if
there are any signs of brain or brainstem function. This includes
assessing the drive to take a breath, determining whether pupils react
to light, and swabbing the back of the throat to elicit a gag reflex.
The neurological examination must be repeated at least once after a
minimum interval of six hours, to ensure that brain function is not
temporarily suppressed by factors such as high doses of narcotics or
intense cold.
... Defining the Terms
Brain death is often confused with other conditions that seem similar, such as coma and vegetative state.
Brain death: Irreversible cessation of all functions
of the entire brain, including the brain stem. A person who is brain
dead is dead, with no chance of revival."
Notice that the article said it is very hard to determine when a person is truly brain dead. The article even says brain function is sometimes "temporarily suppressed by factors such as high doses of narcotics or
intense cold". It also says "Brain death: Irreversible cessation of all functions
of the entire brain, including the brain stem. A person who is brain
dead is dead, with no chance of revival."
https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/brain-death/ says the following.
"Brain death (also known as brain stem
death) is when a person on an artificial life support machine no longer
has any brain functions. This means they will not regain consciousness
or be able to breathe without support.
A
person who is brain dead is legally confirmed as dead. They have no
chance of recovery because their body is unable to survive without
artificial life support.
Brain death is legal death
If someone is brain dead, the damage is irreversible and, according to UK law, the person has died.
It
can be confusing to be told someone has brain death, because their life
support machine will keep their heart beating and their chest will
still rise and fall with every breath from the ventilator.
But they will not ever regain consciousness or start breathing on their own again. They have already died.
... After brain death, it is not possible for someone to remain conscious.
... Tests to confirm brain death
Although rare, a few things can make it appear as though someone is brain dead.
These include drug overdoses (particularly from barbiturates) and severe hypothermia.
A
number of tests are carried out to check for brain death, such as
shining a torch into both eyes to see if they react to the light.
Find out more about diagnosing brain death "
The boldface in that quote of the nhs.uk is their boldface, I did not add that boldface. But the underlining was added by me, for emphasis.
The above quotes of two medical science sources (of highly trusted organizations for medical science information) totally refute and disprove Sea Breeze's unsubstantiated claim of "3. Cases of verified brain dead patients acting and speaking completely normally shortly before death"!
The above two medical science sources thus prove what I said above, namely the following. "I have read
from scientific sources that no one who was truly brain dead ever came
back to life and that no one who was truly brain dead ever
regained consciousness and/or speaking ability."
Readers, Sea Breeze has no proof that truly brain dead people have ever returned to life. He also has no proof that truly brain dead people have regained consciousness.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Out-of-body_experience under the subheading of "Psychological" within the heading of "OBE theories" says the following.
'In the fields of cognitive science and psychology OBEs are considered dissociative experiences arising from different psychological and neurological factors.[5][8][9][10][12][13][14] Scientists consider the OBE to be an experience from a mental state, like a dream or an altered state of consciousness without recourse to the paranormal.[40]
... Terence Hines
(2003) has written that spontaneous out-of-body experiences can be
generated by artificial stimulation of the brain and this strongly
suggests that the OBE experience is caused from "temporary, minor brain
malfunctions, not by the person's spirit (or whatever) actually leaving
the body."[70]
... Richard Wiseman
(2011) has noted that OBE research has focused on finding a
psychological explanation and "out-of-body experiences are not
paranormal and do not provide evidence for the soul. Instead, they
reveal something far more remarkable about the everyday workings of your
brain and body."[74] '
One page 5 of this topic thread Sea Breeze
mentions a case which regarding a purported Out of Body Experience
(OBE) which I had learned of years ago (why I was researching the
possibility of OBE and ESP, despite me already being an atheistic
naturalist at the time). I learned back in discussions from an atheistic
friend of my (who is medical doctor and ex-Christian) that a naturalist
explanation was discovered. (see below in the quote of the wikipedia
article). [I am referring to the following claim my by Sea Breeze.
"Here is just one example out of thousands: A person clinically dies on
the operating table and their consciousness leaves their body. She sees
various doctors, sees where they put things and even drifts outside the
hospital above the roof and sees a particualr kind of tennis show on the
roof.
Later upon reviving, she relates these details and even
describes the color of shoe on the roof. When checked out, all the
details she relates while out of her body are found to be accurate."]
The naturalistic explanation to the claim made by Sea Breeze is found under the subheading of "Paranormal" in the heading of "OBE theories" the above mention article located at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Out-of-body_experience . It says the following.
'In April 1977, a patient from Harborview Medical Center
known as Maria claimed to have experienced an out-of-body experience.
During her OBE she claimed to have floated outside her body and outside
the hospital. Maria later told her social worker Kimberly Clark that
during the OBE she had observed a tennis shoe
on the third floor window ledge to the north side of the building.
Clark then went to the north wing of the building and by looking out of
the window could see a tennis shoe on one of the ledges. Clark published
the account in 1984. The story has since been used in many paranormal
books as evidence that a spirit can leave the body.[92][93]
In 1996, Hayden Ebbern, Sean Mulligan and Barry Beyerstein
visited the Medical Center to investigate Clark's story. They placed a
tennis shoe on the same ledge and found that it was visible from within
the building and could easily have been observed by a patient lying in
bed. They also discovered that the tennis shoe was easy to observe from
outside the building and suggested that Maria may have overheard a
comment about it during her three days in the hospital and then
incorporated it into her OBE. They concluded "Maria's story merely
reveals the naiveté and the power of wishful thinking" from OBE
researchers seeking a paranormal explanation.[94] Clark did not publish the description of the case until seven years after it happened, casting doubt on the story. Richard Wiseman
has said that although the story is not evidence for anything
paranormal it has been "endlessly repeated by writers who either
couldn't be bothered to check the facts, or were unwilling to present
their readers with the more skeptical side of the story."[93] Clark responded to the accusations made in a separate paper.[95] '
On page 7 of this topic thread Sea Breeze said (to Jeffro) the following. "Isn't it true that materialism & naturalism have some pretty tight
mental rules that adherents must follow as well in order to stay within
the atheist fold so to speak?" I answer "No" to that question. Above I cited my on experience of exploring the concept of OBEs and of ESP despite me being an atheistic naturalist at the time (and I continued to be such). Being an atheistic naturalist does not prohibit one from exploring claims of ESP, the paranormal, and the supernatural, nor exploring possible supernatural explanations. I explore a range of phenomena and a ranged of alleged (but unproved) phenomena.From time to time I explore the possibility of the supernatural, despite being a naturalist. Such an approach is not a contradiction, but rather is consistent with a scientific approach of testing ideas, including of prevailing scientific theories and of one's core current beliefs and convictions. That is because scientists and other others using scientific minded approach often question prevailing scientific ideas and explore to see if they have weaknesses. People who adhere to a scientific mindset (including some those with an atheistic naturalist mindset, including myself) often keep their mind open enough (or occasionally open it enough) to question their belief, especially when they encounter new information which challenges their beliefs.
Within the scientific community scientists disagree with their peers on some matters, and they challenge and test the scientific claims of their peers to see if they have flaws. Some scientists even do scientific experiments pertaining to ESP, the paranormal and the supernatural (such as the possible effect of intercessory prayer in hospitals for healing of patients) to see if perhaps they have any validity, and they have published the results in leading peer reviewed scientific journals.
But those who are atheistic naturalists are more likely to find a naturalistic explanation than those who want to believe in supernaturalistic explanation. That is because those who are atheistic naturalists are more motivated to find a naturalistic explanation. Furthermore, on average the atheistic naturalists (at least in my opinion) are probably more rational than on average the theistic supernaturalists.
