This is why I'm Disappointed....

by Nickey 80 Replies latest jw friends

  • shotgun
    shotgun

    Nickey I enjoyed your post...I would not send a family member to an exjw site unless I was sure they could handle it first.

    I've only been on the forum for a few months but have noticed every once and while crazy threads or threads meant to be funny...I even joined in once and a while. I think it's human nature to try to trivialize or put humour into some of the situations we speak of and discuss. If we didn't the pain may be too much to handle. Pranks at the expense of current dubs is not acceptable behavior and I'll agree some comments are also less than desirerable.

    The thread on rumours was not meant to be hurtful, silly maybe. When I think of starting a rumour I want it to be one which will make my dub relatives think it's real enough to check it out. Maybe some how it could make them start to think. Was half of those rumours on that thread any stranger than Building a house in San Diego for Abraham to live in and a Cadillac to drive him around in? If that were to happen today they could have bought a studebaker and people would have thought it was ZZtop on tour.

    The freeminds or watchtower information service websites are informative and would probably be the best place to send your family.

    Sorry if I've ever posted anything which you or others have found distasteful, it was unintentional.

  • Nickey
    Nickey

    Nah shotgun, you're cool.

    I think I will send them to freeminds or giving them one of Ray's books to read. But, that may have to wait a while...

  • shotgun
    shotgun

    Nickey I see you live in California...have any of your witness relatives seen the news articles about all the molestation cases in California?

    When they see news like that it's disturbing to most dubs, and they usually make the statement that the media is blowing it out of proportion. When they say that ask them if the media did the same thing to the Catholic church.

  • bigboi
    bigboi

    I think other's ppls behaviour is a smokescreen that JW's use to cloud real issues about thier religion. When you really think about, what does the behaviour of ppl that no longer belong to the group have to do with any doubts a witness may be entertaining? No witness has ever doubted what goes on in the WTS because of what is going on outside. It's what they are going through because of the religion that they even bother to look at place like these anyways. They need to stop making excuses to justify things going on in "the only place of true worship on earth".

  • SanFranciscoJim
    SanFranciscoJim

    This is one of the best threads I've read in some time. I appreciate the thoughtfulness of the participants in this thread, and in keeping the discussion civil. Thank you especially, Nickey, for starting this thread.

    I have been out of the Organization for over 23 years. During that time, I've had the opportunity to do a lot of healing and introspective self-exploration. I admit that there is a part of me that still hates the JWs for what they did to me, for stealing my formative years from me through false promises of Armageddon and immortality. What I have learned, though, is to channel that hate. I do not hate individual Jehovah's Witnesses. In fact, I care for them very much and wish nothing but the best intentions for them, and demonstrate this caring by being there to assist anyone who wishes to escape from behind the walls of the Watchtower. What I do hate, however, is the WTBTS itself, and the methods it uses, as a corporation, to herd the flock, misguiding them into believing things that shall never come to pass. I hate the power that they wield over the membership, threatening them with shunning and expulsion if anyone should fail to heed their slightest demand. I hate the way the Corporation tries to weasel its way out of responsibility for those who have died from refusing blood, and those who have been sexually mishandled by the pedophiles in their midst.

    In the years since I was expelled, I have dealt with literally hundreds of exJWs (and some hundreds of still active JWs as well, but to a lesser degree). During that time, listening to them, reading their correspondence, and meeting many of them in person, I came to the realization that healing from our JW experience is a process, not an event.

    When one decides to leave the JWs or is expelled, one needs to go through a period of grieving. It's like losing a loved one in divorce or death. For some, the grieving process takes longer than others. What I see here on this board are people in all stages of their grieving process interacting with one another. Some are still consumed with anger, even rage. Others are in denial about their feelings and trying to mask them by childishness, silliness, or prejudice (even bigotry) against others. Still others are in the acceptance phase of their healing process. Yes, there are even some here who, even thuogh they have recovered from their JW experience, stick around to help others, whether anyone has asked them to or not.

    When you have such a potpourri of emotions, arguments are bound to occur. I do not think anyone should be invalidated for having emotions, or for reacting to a situation in a particular way. I do, however, believe that if a person is acting in an offensive manner, then the matter needs to be brought to their attention. Rather than condemning the individual, it should be pointed out to them that they are going through a phase of the grieving process, and should be offered assistance, not further shunning or condemnation.

    I do not agree with all the posts made here. In one recent instance, I found a post of sufficient distastefulness that I had to mention my disgust to a moderator in private. Even in a public forum, I believe that there is a certain decorum that should be followed. Rather than continue to fuel a flame war, I state my position in private to someone with moderation abilities, and move on.

    Personally, I do not believe that an interactive forum such as this is an appropriate starting place for those just leaving the Organization. The WTBTS teaches its followers that those who are "cast out into the darkness" are full of Satanic discord and misery. It would be easy for a JW viewing this board to mistake the healing process occurring here for what they percieve as a group of exJWs who have become self-fulfilling prophecies.

    I've participated in some of the silly threads myself. In the case of the Christmas Tree thread, I percieved it as most people just thinking out loud, wishing they could do these things, but not actually ever carry it out. I have a friend who for years has been threatening to go to the Memorial at a Kingdom Hall with flashlights strapped around his waist, stand up in the middle of the Memorial, flip the switch, and proclaim that he is an angel sent to warn the congregation to leave the JWs. The idea is admittedly amusing, yet, he never actually does it. Why? Because he knows (as do I) that realistically, he would be looked upon as a persecutor or an agent of Satan, giving the JWs more fodder to believe that they are being persecuted because they are the "true religion". The last thing we actually need to do is strengthen any JW's resolve not to leave because of a prank or any means of persecution.

    Peace.....JIM

  • gentlesoul
    gentlesoul

    I don't know you but I have read some of your post in the past. I have been a lurker here for some time too. I am not a JW nor have I ever been but I do have some friends who are JW's. I have indeed read some post here that really made me sick to my stomach and I have noticed that the moderators have complained about petty things and not handled some post that were down right nasty towards some who really did not deserve the words written towards some of your members here.

    I think you have a really great heart and you words are heard by more than you know. I am a Christian and a firm believer in Jesus and God, and I desire to be respected for what I believe so in order to get that respect I know I have to give it even to those who believe differently than I. Because it is the purity of the heart and soul towards others that wins those who are in need of hope.

    I love my friends and family for who they are and not what they are and I have noticed that many here get lost in themselves and act in selfish ways. The way I see it is we all have to stand at a judgement for what we do, for what we say and how we act towards others, and it makes me sad to see people thrashing other people when they don't even know the others shoes.

    Respect is a great tool and a blessing for those who can give it and for those who receive it. I really felt your words deep in the heart and hope that someday we will find that true peace that people like you and I hope for....

    I dont know if I will ever post here again, I still am a lurker as I have heard it called here but I will be reading and maybe someday I will have many post here as some of you do..But for now Good hopes and well wishes for everyone here.

  • shamus
    shamus

    I havent' read through the whole thread, but wanted to thank you for posting this. (and having the courage to do so, too!)

    I don't agree with decorating kindom halls, etc... but it is such a free board, sometimes we forget that lots of people are lurking here. Remember that we are but 1 percent of people who have left the troof... and there are many kind souls here, and some who are mean, too!

    In short, we are just as imperfect as any witness... because we used to be them! And we did not have some "mentality" overnight that saved us.... many who preach right now will join us as faded, apostate, disfellowshipped, disassosiated, whatever...

    Ever wonder why Ray Franz never posts here? That's a question that I will leave up to the reader here to decide.

    As for myself, I am very guilty of being an idiot on this board on many occasions, and for that I do apologize.

  • freedom96
    freedom96

    People are people, and not all being said is going to agree with everyone else 100%. That is just not possible.

    Humor on some subjects also can allow one to heal from the horrible experiences incurred while being a witness. Whoever is lurking on this board, must be of a mindset to not allow some topics to "stumble" them from looking around more. I think that is a case of simply being over sensitive.

    If a witness is lurking here, and sees a posting they don't agree with, there is nothing to help that. Most are going to be scared or offended by what is listed here regarding the religionl anyways.

    If a JW or not comes on this board to be critical of it, they will find a way to be regardless of what is being posted.

    For me, I simply read the threads that look interesting. I don't get hung up on the ones that mean little to me.

  • Simon
    Simon

    I think people are people.

    Some assume that 'everyone will be nice'. They aren't. I've come across some downright nasty people who have real issues they need to sort out.

    The majority are nice people however and there is a predominantly friendly atmosphere and no, I don't think this is becase of 'heavy moderations' (garbage) but because the majority of people are decent, friendly human beings who understand the acceptable limits of behaviour.

    Where the problems start is when people want to push the limits fo what seems to me like no good reason.

    Examples ... why would you want to shout in a public library? Every one knows it's not acceptable.

    Would you expect druken shouting across the room and lewd behaviour at a restaurant? No be surprised if you go thrown out for doing that - you'd go to a bar where that behaviour was expected.

  • Simon
    Simon

    BTW: The standards we try to maintain on this site are not designed to make it appealing to leaving JWs although I would hope that people are considerate of them.

    They are primarily there because they are the sort of standards of public behaviour that most decent folk want and expect. It is as simple as that.

    We're not saying people cannot swear or post porn or whatever on the internet ... they should just do it where it's appropriate and that isn't here. Frankly, going to the door of a restaurant demanding to know why you are not let in without a shirt on and can't shout across the room is dumb.

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