by nicolaou 299 Replies latest watchtower bible
They are naive, uneducated and inexperienced. A five year-old child would be better prepared for life's challenges than Adam and Eve were. So, when faced with an obedience test is it any wonder that they failed at the first attempt?
Exactly. Even if you believe the story, it's a story of someone leaving his creation woefully unprepared for the concept of "deception". It's bad parenting for that alone (before you get to the "killing them" part).
"i wish i could take away all the pain you have ever felt"
Yeah, you can stick that religious twaddle where the sun don't shine (removed).
It's nothing todo with pain or being hurt, it's simple logic and reason. Sorry your holy book is badly written. It's what happens when goat herders write tall tales.
Next there will be talking bears and people riding fish like it's Narnia, before it switches to a super-hero-action-movie, then a rom-com-with-a-bit-of-murder before getting back to the classic redemption heroes tale.
Ty nicolaou for bringing the conversation here.
So according to Genesis, who told the first lie? God told Eve that if she ate from the Tree of Knowledge she would die that very same day. In response to that statement the Devil told her she would not die.
However, Genesis doesn't state that the snake responded to that statement/warning made by God.
The snake doesn't ask God to corroborate him either after providing Eve with 'clarity' as to when exactly she would die.
The snake simply stated "you will not die".
A very skillful move, it turns out.
The snake spoke the truth - that they would become like god and able to recognize good and evil and god confirmed this later saying "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil."
Which goes back the the previous point - if they were not able to recognize evil, it seems ... well, "evil" to hold them to account for something they weren't capable of doing, by his own design.
A bad builder blames his tools.
An evil builder blames his creation.
A psychopath blames and punishes them.
Gen 3
“And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die",
God hath said, "Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die".
It's clear: Satan lied, they died.
The Hebrew word Yom means 24 hours, a solar day ,exodus 20 : 8-11 Israel were to work for six days and rest on the 7th day "Yom " same word used in genesis. So not a thousand years.
Majority of Christian religions believed a 150 years ago that the creation account was made up of 7 days of 24 hours period. It was only pesky science that made them change their time scale.
So the serpent in the story didn't lie ,they didn't die in a day ,yom a 24 hour period of time.
The Adam and eve story is a myth, there's a similar story in the epic tales of galgermesh.
Simon - The snake spoke the truth - that they would become like god and able to recognize good and evil and god confirmed this later saying "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil.
Here you are pointing to what the snake said after the lie. He's good at this as you can see.
But let's go back to the lie.
Genesis states that the snake asked Eve to repeat what God had warned. Interestingly, in her response Eve didn't say when exactly she would die if she ate from the wrong tree. She simply stated "....lest you die". Perhaps she forgot the exact words.
Whatever the case, here immediately the snake responds with "you will not die".
"A wise man protects innocent ones"
I agree Fragrant. That is why this story in Genesis has always been very difficult for me to understand and process. You have this creature who according to our teaching is hundreds of thousands of times more powerful than we are (including brain power presumably).With the attendant wisdom that comes with being eons of years old. A creature that cheered and clapped when our grandparents were created by God and knew how relatively young and utterly innocent they were. Yet this creature chose to take advantage of that innocence and fool us to our everlasting detriment. To what end? It just makes him look the way an adult male that steals candy from a baby would look! Then the father of the baby arrives and severely punishes the baby, even though he can see the real culprit standing there with the candy - grinning from ear to ear!
In fact, as Nicolaou said, any three year old child would have more wit than Adam and Eve had!!!
The only person that comes out of this story with any credibility was EVE in my opinion....at least she acted out of complete naivety!
These are all attempts to get around the plain fact that Eve did not die as a result of eating from the tree as God had said she would.
Think of it this way. You are a young woman whose mother is suffering from a particularly virulent form of cancer, all treatments have failed and you have been told your Mum has less than a month to live. However, there's hope! A pioneering oncologist assures you, promises you, that if your mother agrees to an experimental and untested new treatment she positively “will not die.”
You convince your still young but dying mother that this is her best hope. With nothing to lose she agrees to the treatment and lives on for another forty years! She’s with you at your graduation and on your wedding day. She’s a grandmother to your children and is even with you to enjoy a few years of your retirement. Finally, at a fair age in her mid eighties, your mother passes away.
Would it be reasonable of you to label as a liar the medical researcher who promised you four decades earlier that your mother would “not die”? After all, your aged mother is indeed now dead.
Preposterous isn’t it?
First of all, neither Adam nor Eve were innocent. They were guilty as sin. So, they died, in accordance with the Law.
Adam and Eve's pitiful attempt at covering their sin was by sewing fig leaves together. Our attempts at covering our sins through our own works are just as insufficient and pitiful as well. God had mercy on them and provided an appropriate covering (animal skins) that required the shedding of Blood, which forshadowwed the day when God would become a man and shed his own blood, in their stead but not theirs only; but for all who wanted it.
Sin and death entered the world because a decision was made NOT to believe God. When God offered the whole world the opportunity to allow him to pay your sin debt in your stead, he recreated the opportunity Eve had to choose whether or not to believe God.
Adam and Eve are definitely saved. They accepted the blood covering God offered and likely believed God thereafter, especially the prophecy in Gen. 3: 15.
Everyone has the choice Eve had. Eve initially didn't believe God. Later, I'm quite sure she changed her mind and decided it was better to believe God. Which is why I look forward to meeting her.
It just makes sense to believe God, and live. Sin is not just wrong. It is stupid and illogical.
