What "CAUSES" a molested child to hurt? (Warning: Possible Triggers)

by gumby 195 Replies latest watchtower child-abuse

• 

  Lady Lee

  Well there is this thread on Memory - How it works or
  

  but I think the thread Nina is referring to is actually one that Big Tex started

  Repressed, Triggered and Recovered Memories

  Both threads address the issue of recovered memories

  I have my own repressed memories. One of them I thought I had posted here and it may have been in teh thread on Memory that was corrupted and lost. But I have it on my website. I still don't have the whole thing. But I have enough to know now

  OLD SCARS

  I have a scar on my ankle. It is small. Hardly noticeable really. But I know it is there. I know how I got most of my scars; the one on my wrist from a piece of glass thrown my way by the kids who used the lane on their way to school, the one on my lip from a farming accident, another on my foot from a sprained ankle. But this one scar has always been a mystery to me.
  
  I remember going swimming with my brother at Rice Lake in the summer when I was 11 years old. My father would take us there and we pretty much had the freedom to come and go as we pleased. It was my responsibility, however, to keep an eye out for Larry, 18 months younger than me. We spent the days swimming in the lake, finding tadpoles and fishing. I even got comfortable putting my own worms on the hook.
  
  We stayed in a one-room cabin and had our meals in the main house with the other guests. In the mornings, it was my job to make the beds and get my brother up and dressed. Then we would head up to the main house for breakfast and after, away we would go on our adventures for the day. I really don?t know what my father did during the day. We were too busy enjoying the freedom that the country had given us.
  
  The first time I noticed the scar it was still a fresh wound. Larry and I had been swimming in the shallows of the lake and searching for minnows to use later when we went fishing. As we were getting out of the water Larry asked, "What?s that on your leg?" I looked down and saw a small oval wound, red and bleeding. I had no idea where it came from. Guessing, I said, "I don?t know, maybe I scrapped it on a nail or rock on the bottom, or maybe a blood-sucker got me." Even as I said that I knew that is not what happened. But I could not come up with any better answer.
  
  The sore healed, slowly, and left a perfectly oval clear scar. It was as if all the tissue in the first layers of skin had been scrapped off leaving a clear overcoat of skin to the flesh below.
  
  Mostly I forgot about it. But every now and then, I would sit and wonder, about a nail, or a blood-sucker. I knew that was wrong, but no other explanation came to me through the years.
  
  However, my dreams gave me another explanation. The summer we were at Rice Lake there was a man who offered rides on his horse for twenty-five cents. The kids would line up in the morning and take turns riding high in the saddle of this beautiful black mare. In my dreams I had my turn on the horse. What a glorious feeling, sitting taller than everyone and seeing the world from a different perspective. Unlike the other kids, I got to ride bareback, the smooth back of the horse against my legs. But I had no reins and as the horse moved forward, I invariably moved backwards, only to fall off and onto the ground below. Every time I had the dream, I fell. It never deviated. And I got my scar.
  
  It got to the point where the dream was so vivid, the feelings so strong, that I became confused. Was this real? Did I ride the horse? Or was it all a dream, just a silly dream. Over the years people would ask me whether I had ever ridden a horse. Sometimes I would say "Yes, but I fell off" and in the moment of saying feel the confusion in my mind. Other times I would say "No" and wonder if I should have said yes. Either way, my answer always felt false.
  
  Through the years the dream remained the same, as did my confusion about the cause of the scar. Maybe I did get the scar falling off the horse. Occasionally, I would mindlessly finger it, round and round. Other times, I would try to fit the scar in with my dream of the horse. The two seemed connected but I had no idea how.
  
  In my 30?s I did a lot of recovery work about the abuse in my early childhood. I worked my way through many memories in therapy. This one remained illusive. As far as I knew this was the only memory unaccounted for. I spoke to a friend, Sandi, about it one warm summer night. We often spoke about our childhood, trying to fit the pieces of her memory together.
  
  We were outside, talking, enjoying the cooler air. She sat on the steps and I stood in front of her on the sidewalk - the cool cement a relief to my feet. As we talked she lit a cigarette and I stood there watching the glow as she inhaled. I could not move or breath. I watched as she inhaled again, the tip glowing bright red in the night air.
  
  I felt an explosion of knowing and a scream "No" inside of me, one side fighting the other. I asked her for a cigarette. Hesitantly she passed me the pack and I removed one cigarette. I placed one foot on a step, and reached down to place the tip of the cigarette on the scar. A perfect match. I felt sick. I slid the cigarette along the scar and it matched. He burned me. He scarred me. I knew. The confusion was gone. No nail. No bloodsucker. No horse. Just me and my father, in the cabin. And his cigarettes.
  
  I felt peace, and calm, and shock, and rage, and denial.
  
  There was a horse. My father gave Larry the money for a ride on the horse and told him to have a good time. I had to stay and do some work, so he would have to go alone.
  
  I still don?t know how or what happened in that cabin. I believe my mind was out on the horse with Larry and nowhere near that cabin. But my body was there. My leg. My ankle. My scar. I knew just the same way you know that you know someone?s name but can?t think of it until 3am. My knowing is sure. I just haven?t woken up to remember it yet.
  
  And I?m not really sure I want to. I have never had the horse dream since then. I can answer with conviction that I had never ridden on a horse as a child. I can look and feel my scar and know when and how it came to be. And I know.
• 

  gumby

  As we talked she lit a cigarette and I stood there watching the glow as she inhaled. I could not move or breath.

  Wow LadyLee! A cigarette was your trigger. You have seen cigarette's BEFORE this incident, yet THIS incident triggered it. I suppose the situation made the difference. You finally removed that demon. I wonder how many who suffer various types of fears and problems, could eliminate many of these if they could also remove their own demons by recalling the things that caused their problems in the first place......and facing those problems. I think ALL of us carry hidden hurt we don't even know exists. Perhaps these hidden problems are what shape many of us.

  Gumby
• 

  Lady Lee

  Gumby I had seen hundreds if not thousands of cigerettes in the 25 years or so between the event and the recovery. I have no idea what triggered it at that particular point. We weren't even talking about me. We were talking about her. But there it was like an explosion in my head. I know where the scar came from and that gives me a certain amount of peace. I don't wonder anymore.

  Other people have said similar things to me. It was like an explosion in their heads - a sudden knowing beyond a shadow of a doubt. They might still have missing pieces but a main piece is there. Other people get it back in bits and pieces.

  It is very similar to the flashbacks that war vets get after they come home. They may block out pieces of what happened and then one day something triggers it and they are right back in the war zone ducking bullets.

  I have recalled most of my past - well actually never forgotten most of it. But I know there are still some missing pieces. maybe they will come back and maybe they won't. I find if something keeps bothering me that it might be an indication that something is trying to surface.

  Since memory is state/mood dependant very often people will remember something when they are in the same mood. So being scared in one situation could trigger the old memory of being scared. And it might simply trigger the old feeling - as in an over-reaction to something or it can trigger the whole memory.

  Many reputable therapists dealing with trauma do not recommend forcing memories out through hypnosis. it can be done sometimes but if the person is not really ready for the memory it could put them in crisis mode. It is therapeutically better to deal with what one already knows. Forming a stable basis for ongoing work is crucial to recovery. And the whole point of therapy is to help a person be stable - not continually keeping them in a state of crisis.
• 

  gumby

  Many reputable therapists dealing with trauma do not recommend forcing memories out through hypnosis. It can be done sometimes but if the person is not really ready for the memory it could put them in crisis mode. It is therapeutically better to deal with what one already knows

  Ladylee,

  That's what I was wanting to know. Thank you.

  I just want to thank you so much for ALL your help here with this issue. You are truely a gem to this board as are many others who give helpful insights.

  Tomarrow I will read the links you provided which deal with repressed memories. Thanks again

  Gumby
• 

  blondie

  I have mentioned in the past that I am a survivor of abuse. Because my family cannot or will not face the facts, I no longer have contact with them. It has been the best decision I ever made other than fading from the WTS. I have had 20 years now to sort through the pain and the memories. The most painful part has been being hurt by the people that are supposed to love and protect you. Don't think that abuse ends when you become an adult. The hurt continues when your parents or other abuser refuses to acknowledge what they have done and apologize to you. About 5 years ago, I reached the point in my counseling that I knew that I had to end contact with them. They were not going to change . The hardest part of healing is recognizing who the abusers are, what abuse is, and that you are not obligated to keep close contact with them.

  If someone slapped you in the face every time you met them, when would you stop being around them? Hmmmm....

  Blondie
• 

  Frannie Banannie

  ^5's, Blondie!

  FB
• 

  Big Tex

  Gumby (good question by the way), I posted this last year. Repression of memories is controversial but I believe it does happen. I lived it, and Nina saw it. Anyway this is what happened to me:

  Warning: This is a graphic account of abuse. Please do NOT read this if you are feeling vulnerable or still dealing with abuse issues.

  First of all, let me say that many, if not most, of my memories of abuse and early childhood were recovered. Some people feel that this diminishes my experience, or in some way denies what happened. I don't.
  
  I suffered from major depression and was quite suicidal for 2 years before something happened to trigger my memories. September 1, 1987 my wife and I were in a hotel room in Paris. I had remarked how similar the countryside was to a home I had in the Ozarks when I was little. Late that night, after splitting a bottle of wine and feeling very relaxed and mellow, we were talking about my depression. Neither one of us knew why I was feeling so sad, so angry and in so much pain all the time. I was 25 and in the prime of my life and yet I was tired all the time, I slept 10 hours a night, I had gained 30 pounds and I was miserable. I hadn't been this way before, so what was going on?
  
  This was a subject we had discussed many times, but I could not express to her how badly I felt. We had talked about reasons, but I honestly did not know. Even though I remembered nothing of the first 7 years, I thought my childhood was quite normal. My parents were a bit cold and even mean sometimes, but I thought it was understandable considering I was such a rotten person. I felt I deserved to be treated that way. However, I also had screaming nightmares 4 or 5 times a week for as long as I could remember. Often I could not remember what the nightmare was about. After we got married, Nina had told me that she often heard me scream, "No!! Don't kill me!"
  
  Anyway, that night as we were talking, she asked me if I had ever been threatened or perhaps even abused as a child. I quickly told her no, it was impossible. Then she leaned over to me getting within a few inches of my face and said, "Did anyone ever say to you -- 'If you tell anyone about this I'll kill you?'"
  
  To this day I don't remember what happened next. She said I began screaming and retreated into a corner saying "My God, my God get away from me, don't touch me!" over and over.
  
  Over the next 3 or 4 months I began having little blips of memory. Sometimes it would be something inocuous, like playing in an inflatable wading pool with my sister, or remembering how my room looked when I was 4. I even remembered having a cowboys and indians bedspread. However, at other times I remembered other, more hideous things such as being raped by my grandfather while my mother stood in the doorway.
  
  I did not believe what I was remembering. I did not think it was possible to have had such trauma and forget it. I am a very stubborn and skeptical person. It takes a lot before I will change my mind, and I needed proof. So I began a very quiet investigation. The first person I talked with was my maternal grandmother. I told her the memory I had about her ex-husband and she did not blink an eye. She looked at me for a long time, like she was debating over what to say. Then she said, "Honey, that was a very bad time, so I don't remember much about it. However I do believe he was capable of doing just what you said."
  
  She told me how my paternal aunt (father's sister) had molested all of her children and my paternal uncle (father's brother) was an alcoholic and had molested his son. Interestingly, he and I were the only boys on my father's side of the family and we both changed our names legally when we grew up. Then she said something very curious, "Your parents ran around with a pretty wild crowd. Hon, just about anything you remember will probably be true."
  
  Well that still wasn't enough for me. I began doing geneology research. I talked with the editor of the newspaper in my parent's little hometown. I talked with their old next door neighbor. I talked with a pediatrician. I wrote hospitals and other doctors. I talked with my other grandmother (my dad's mother). By this time I had other darker and more abusive memories. My list of rapists had expanded from just my grandfather to include my mother, my father and one of his friends. I had begun to remember an almost frenzied couple of years (ages 3-4 1/2) of oral sex, sodomy and orgies. I told most of this to my other grandmother. She also did not bat an eye. She was not shocked. She told me that she did not see anything happen (I had asked specifically because the elders had demanded an eyewitness) but she did tell me she suspected something at the time. She told me once she was babysitting me and my grandfather (the rapist) came to pick me up. I was 3. She remembered I had told him, "I don't know who you are, but I want you to leave because you make me nervous." She said she always remembered that not only because of how I said it but also because of his reaction which left her feeling something was not right. But she never said or did anything.
  
  She confirmed some "normal" memories I had recovered, such as my parents had a lake house and a boat. My dad also owned a grocery store, and I described it for her in detail, and she confirmed I had recovered the memory correctly. I told her what my other grandmother had said about my aunt (her daughter) molesting her children. She said that two of the children had told her stories just as I was doing and she believed them, just as she believed me.
  
  Then she began telling me stories I had not heard before, such as my parents and my aunt commiting her to a psychiatric hospital and filing suit in order to get her money. In 1966 she was worth between $300,000 and $400,000. She said she contacted her lawyer who had her released that day. She said she sent my father a Hallmark card that said, "If I'm crazy what does that make you?" She also told me my mother had a miscarriage 2 years before I was born and that my mother's mother (my maternal grandmother) had kept the fetus in a mason jar. She also told me, "It was a bad time."
  
  I then got in touch with my mother's sister who also was not surprised at what I had recovered. She confirmed all of what both grandmothers told me. She said she was not an eyewitness to any rape, but she said both sides of the family were rotten to the core with my parents being the worst. She told me she had felt sorry for me because I didn't deserve what had happened. She gave me more information about my childhood and the extended family than either grandmother. She told me her father had raped his son when he was a child. According to her, my grandfather was "a sex addict". Not the word I would use, but it does capture the spirit. She also told me, "It was a bad time."
  
  At home, I have a box of notes, photographs and letters that I kept while I was in therapy. There is a lot more that happened that I haven't talked about online. And there are a couple of questions I still have, the biggest is regarding a cryptic comment my paternal grandmother said to me: "After they were run out of town, your parents moved to Dallas." She never would explain that comment, and neither would anyone else. Why were my parents run out of town? And by who?
  
  As I understand it, the current thinking in psychological circles is that repressed memories are false, implanted by the therapist. According to this thinking, anything recovered should be ignored. I have no doubt that this has happened, but I do not think the idea that an experience which can be so traumatic that it is buried or even forgotten should be discarded just because of a few rogue psychologists.
  
  I think the memory should be validated, but at the same time I think it is also very important that HOW one feels about that memory is even more important. Is the experience frightening, shaming or does it bring up anger? These emotions should be dealt with. But I think it is a mistake to jettison something recovered just because it is out of vogue with the current thought.
  
  In my own experience I don't know if I have every detail correct. Was it day or night? Did this rape occur in my bedroom or outdoors? Ultimately I do not think it matters. The most important thing is I know something hideous and frightening happened to a little boy. So far everything I've talked about online has been only the memories for which I have confirmation. There are other, more bizarre and crazy memories which give me goosebumps even as I'm writing this. But I could not get anyone to confirm them (although it was odd the way people wouldn't talk), so I won't go there.
• 

  gumby

  My list of rapists had expanded from just my grandfather to include my mother, my father and one of his friends. I had begun to remember an almost frenzied couple of years (ages 3-4 1/2) of oral sex, sodomy and orgies.

  I can't begin to even fathom in my mind, how a parent, or relative, or anyone else, could even THINK of such a horrible horrible crime against a child. Chris......it's a wonder you have any sanity and that you made it this far, I would NOT have. People are truely worse than any animal I know of. I'm totally shocked a parent stand there and watch another family member rape their own child. This was very hard to read and scares me what some of you people have gone through. I would have taken my life for sure had it been me as I have a hard enough time in life emotionally WITHOUT being a molestation victim.

  Thank you for sharing as I am sure it was awful hard to bring all this up into your mind again. How sad. {{{{{{{{{hugs to you for what you had to live through}}}}}}}}}

  Gumby
• 

  little witch

  When I first read Gumby's post, I understood he was asking an important question (one that I have pondered myself). I don't feel he was Implying anything, but trying to educate himself and understand, so I am not upset at all about the original post.

  This is just a very triggering and emotional topic for many of us here, and I am glad that there are so many posting and speaking out especially those who are survivors bearing their souls for the sake of inlightening others.

  I too am a survivor of sexual misconduct, sexual abuse, emotional abuse and physical abuse.

  I relate very much to what Naner (FB) said, about family get togethers and social settings becoming a nightmare, and trying to keep safe. I used to hold my pee for hours in fear of being accosted on my way to the bathroom! And all these years later I fear groups of people.

  There are as many hurts associated with sexual abuse as there are MO's that perpatrators use. If for example a child is molested at a very young age, physical damage is a factor. Childrens bodies are not built to be violated that way. The vagina and hymen are torn, or anus.

  Older children who are abused may feel some sort of affection for the abuser, and feel a arousal and response.

  Some who are molested may know right away that they are in danger, and some may not know until years later.

  Some abusers are terribly violent and cruel, and some use mind bending techniques such as rewards and cohersion.

  I am so glad this thread has gone on, albeit it is triggering. (perhaps a TRIGGERING label would help.

  However, I appreciate the openess to speak of the unspeakable.

  ((((Group Hugs)))) you brave souls!

  We ex-jw's arent ones for secrecy are we? Much to our credit!
• 

  Big Tex

  This was very hard to read and scares me what some of you people have gone through

  Gosh I never even thought about that. Thanks, I'll put a warning so that no one accidently gets triggered or overwhelmed.

  As for the rest, no I'm okay talking about it. Really, it's all right. The reason why psychotherapy can help abuse victims is that it doesn't change what they went through, but it does change how we feel about it. Very important. Where I am today is light years from 15 years ago. Yes it still hurts, and probably always will. But it is part of who I am now.

  And yet what I went through is as nothing compared to other stories I've heard. So if I can do anything, even if it's a drop in the bucket, at least it's something to help someone else. At the end of the day, that's all any of us can do.

  Chris