Powell admits Iraq evidence mistake (page 11)

SixofNine

Good lord blacksheep, you are a very dense person.

blacksheep

Good lord blacksheep, you are a very dense person.

Oh, really astounding point. Glad to see you're up to par with your debating skills. Name calling is always impressive.

Simon

There was an interesting radio programme yesterday morning with two people debating / arguing the current situation in Iraq.

The republican / neo-con viewpoint was that things weren't so bad () but there were 'some problems' and his 'solution' was to ask the other guy who had opposed the war because this is the situation he said we would find ourselves in:

"Well, were there and in that situation now so tell us what your solution is?"

His reply was that he didn't know. It seemed hopeless. They do not have even the rudiments of a government or rule of law, no postal service, no infrastructure. Nothing.

He has just returned from spending quite a bit of time in Iraq and travelling round.

One interesting thing he said was that the way Iraq was, it's quite possible that Saddam was a product of Iraq and not as we often see it, the current Iraq as a product of Saddam.

One thing is for sure, America now has one god-damn aweful f****g mess to clear up and they had better stay and put it right. I can see dub for brains wanting to cut his losses and leave because of the election coming up but if that happens then the whole country will be left in chaos.

He has made a complete and utter stinking mess of the whole thing. If there was going to be a war it should have been done in the right way - it wasn't, not by a long shot. The "peace" was not planned and lack of action after the war ended (ha ... dub head flies in on a plane for a photo-shoot and announces it's finished?!) has created resentment and lack of confidence in the US ability to deliver on their promises.

I think he imagined that the US military is better than it actually is. This has shown that it isn't. I think if anything it will have shown other rogue states that DO have an intact military that the US is not the massive power it imagines itself to be.

The UK is just a tag along led by a publicity seeking wanker and is IMO equally to blame for the whole thing (if not more). How much better would things have worked out if Blair had had some proper leadership ability and said "dub, you are doing the wrong thing and it won't work" instead of "ooh, ooh ... me too ... can I visit camp david?"

plmkrzy

America

has one god-damn aweful f****g mess to

clean

up and they had better stay and put it right.

I agree!

But Iraq was not exactly a vacation resort to begin with like you seem to think.

SixofNine

I think he imagined that the US military is better than it actually is.

I disagree. I think his lack of imagination is the problem. I don't think he ever allowed a day like today to come into his imagination, and certainly not 3 days like the past 3. I don't think he gave a minutes thought as to what the Iraqi public would do in the months after an invasion. The open arms he expected was a pipe dream.

The US military is just as impressive as it looked when it rolled into Baghdad, imo. They never signed up or trained to be Imperial guards or babysitters of very clever people who want to kill them.

There may (just may) have been a window of opportunity to get the Iraqi people involved and interested in partnering with the US just after the major combat operations were finished... but if so, it's closed by now. That work should have been done before any invasion if it was to have much chance of success.

This is beginning to look like Vietnam, Palastine, and Mogadishu all rolled into one. If we can't disarm them, we have an open-ended problem. I fear we don't have either the political will or the manpower to disarm Iraq, and yet we certainly don't have the political will to leave. This could be really painful.

Simon

Yes, the military is there to blow up tanks and bomb buildings - it is not good at occupying or peace keeping (has the US ever successfully occupied anywhere BTW?). It is geared up for the 'big war' and despite claiming to know that the new threat was totally different kind of war (terrorism) dub kept persuing that kind of build up (missile defense for instance). Street to street fighting with guys with AK47's and RPGs is a different type of battle and not the kind of thing that the US is good at or geared up for IMO.

I just don't think a tenth of the effort went into planning for the peace as went into planning and campaigning for the war. It all really seems to be be an afterthought. Sure, they thought about the handing over of billion dollar contracts in exchange for Iraq's oil revenues / reserves but didn't think about the practicalities.

It all comes back to intelligence. Just as they got the pre-war military intelligence dead wrong, they don't have people on the ground who can tell then what the views and mood of the people are.

The belief that they would be welcomed with open arms, perhaps flowers being thrown in the streets, now seems to be a really sick joke by people so out of touch they may as well be on another planet.

SixofNine

.....now seems to be a really sick joke by people so out of touch they may as well be on another planet.

Well... there is that speculation...

Simon

Of course ... it all makes sense now !

The 'manned mission to mars' that he announced is really a last ditch attempt for all the neo-cons to escape back to their home planet that has already been decimated by millenia of warfare before they spied the chance to continue it on ours.

plmkrzy

has the US ever successfully occupied anywhere BTW?).

yes

America

plmkrzy

This mornings headlines

US toll mounts as Bush vows to crush "thugs"
AFP - 3 minutes ago
US marines lost at least 12 dead in their worst single toll in Iraq this year as occupation forces battled Shiite and Sunni opponents and US President George W. Bush vowed to crush those he called "thugs and killers".

U.S. Firm on Iraq Handoff
Los Angeles Times - 19 minutes ago
WASHINGTON ? One of the few things untouched by the new violence spreading across Iraq is the ringing U.S. insistence that no amount of instability will derail American plans to hand sovereignty back to Iraqis on June 30.

12 Marines Are Killed as Violence Spreads in Iraq
Los Angeles Times - 19 minutes ago
NAJAF, Iraq ? Anti-American violence intensified across Iraq on Tuesday, spreading to previously quiet areas of the country and leaving a dozen Marines dead in one clash.

MilitaryMilitary mulls boosting Iraq force
Chicago Tribune - Tue Apr 6, 9:40 AM ET
The U.S. military is examining ways to expand the size of its occupation force in Iraq in case reinforcements are needed because of rising violence there.
A Look at U.S. Military Deaths in Iraq AP

U.N. and Inspections U.N. Envoy in Iraq Keeps to Busy Schedule
AP - Tue Apr 6, 7:08 PM ET
Despite an escalation in fighting in Iraq, U.N. envoy Lakhdar Brahimi met politicians, women's groups and rights activists in Baghdad Tuesday in his quest to help the country pick an interim government that will take power on June 30.

Media IssuesMedia careful about what images to show
USATODAY.com - Thu Apr 1, 7:27 AM ET
"This is a tough one," ABC Nightline chief Leroy Sievers wrote Wednesday in his daily e-mail to viewers.

OpinionU.N. record in Iraq is strong
Mon Apr 5, 6:38 AM ET, USATODAY.com
There has been much discussion lately about the "scandal" of the U.N.-run oil-for-food program. The Iraqi Governing Council charges that hundreds of Iraqi officials, foreign companies and Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein skimmed 10% or so from the humanitarian contracts.

Keep freedom of press in Iraq
USATODAY.com - Thu Apr 1, 7:17 AM ET

Corruption charges threaten valuable U.N. role in Iraq
USATODAY.com - Mon Apr 5, 6:38 AM ET

Pin the Tail On the Donkey

Powell admits Iraq evidence mistake

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