Powell admits Iraq evidence mistake (page 12)

Simon

yes

America

Well ... that would really have been the British wouldn't it? We were rather good at taking over and governing.

patio34

Blacksheep, you posted this chart. Do you have a link to the information? I'd like to visit the website.

Oh really? How are you measuring ?fiscal record?? Again, I?ll point to the Wall Street Journal (pretty good fiscal periodical---a bit more reliable than the NWT, which is basically a rag). Check out the stats for the last 6 re-election years:
Inflation Unemployment Misery Index
76-Ford 5.8% 7.7% 13.5%
80-Carter 13.5% 7.1% 20.6%
84-Regaen 4.3% 7.5% 11.8%
92-Bush I 3.0% 7.5% 10.5%
96-Clinton 3.0% 5.4% 8.4%
04-Bush 2.0% 5.7% 7.7
BTW, the Misery Index was created by the late economist Arthur Okun, basically adding inflation and unemployment. Funny, Bush has the lowest misery index (a very good thing).

roybatty

I think he imagined that the US military is better than it actually is. This has shown that it isn't. I think if anything it will have shown other rogue states that DO have an intact military that the US is not the massive power it imagines itself to be.

You have GOT to be kidding! That's actually one of the big headaches the President had, that the US Army ran over the Iraqi army too fast. What took months and weeks a decade ago, now took a matter of days. Even if you want to look at it from a "cold, numbers" point of view, loosing 500 people over a one year period in a war is probably acceptable. What people forget is that the US army is occupying a country of some 40 million people. Hell, last year a 1,000 people were murdered in the city of Chicago. A city with a population of only 3 million.

One thing I will agree with is that the US army is not designed to occupy and police a country. This, to me, was Bush's biggest mistake. He had two options. One, cut loose the dogs of war, take out Saddam and his army and then leave or two, take out Saddam and his army then turn over the reconstructing process to the UN.

This "nation rebuilding" process is going to be tough. But he's got us in there now and if he cuts loose the people of Iraq before the job is done (like his daddy did) they'll be hell to pay.

RevMalk

Ya, but then we had to send the silly brits home

They were good at occupying America, just not too good at keeping it that way

Realist

blacksheep,

So which is it? The budget/deficit or how the economy is doing?

you seem to know a bit about economics so you are most likely aware of the risk involved with punching a huge hole into the budget and increasing the state debt. yes pumping billions into the industry can start up the economy but if the debt of the state get too high you have to spend most of the states income on repaying just the interest rates on the loans.

so yes bush's plan might help the economy now but it has caused the worst fiscal situation of the state (highest budget deficit ever).

The inflation/unemployment rates are facts, not subject to subjective interpretation.

in principle yes although it is depending on which people you count as unemployed, being retrained, fallen completely out of the statistics etc.

Also, the state/fed budget ARE tied to the overal economic picture.

usually thats true. if the economy is doing fine than the state has to spend less on welfare and gets more taxes...

Bigger national debt does NOT in and of itself that the economy is "bad";

also true, but if it gets too high than you can get in serious troubles.

in fact, if you read the principles of macroeconmics and interrelationships of the economy to the fed budget, you'd see that the national debt, given the current ecom. situation is quite normal.

yes thats because clinton has reduced the state deficit. what is not normal however is the budget deficit of the last 2 or 3 years. they were the worst in history.

"highly valuated," by whom, exactly?

by most other newspapers and commenters.

it's editor in chief had to resign because he ignored all signs indicating one of his reporters consistently lied, plagiarized, and basically made stuff up.

yes i read that. but does that invalidate the whole newspaper?

I'd suggest you branch out and read other newspapers in addition to the NYT.

from a european perspective the NYTimes seems quite neutral in its assessment of the situation. what you refer to as left wing in the US is central in europe and what you consider conservative would be considered FAR right wing extreme. (ever heard of jörg haider? )

in any case, i do read other newspaper (europeans) and have not found inconsistencies between the main points they make. after all they all get the main stories from reuters etc.

SixofNine

hhmmm, there's that word again, "radicalism". ANALYSIS-Arab Rulers' Worst Fears on Iraq Come True Wed Apr 7, 2004 10:58 AM ET
By Samia Nakhoul

DUBAI, United Arab Emirates (Reuters) - As U.S. forces battle on a new front in Iraq, Baghdad's Arab neighbors watch the escalating violence with alarm and a message that affords them only the grimmest satisfaction: "We told you so."

Arab leaders had said loudly and repeatedly that a U.S. war against Saddam Hussein would unleash chaos in multi-ethnic Iraq and the region and open a Pandora's box of radicalism.

With U.S.-led forces now battling Shi'ite Muslims in several cities, they now feel their ominous prophecy has come true.

The leaders fear that clashes between Shi'ites loyal to firebrand cleric Moqtada al-Sadr and occupation forces could lead to civil war -- and spill over their borders.

"This is what we've been warning about. We told the Americans Saddam Hussein was only five percent of the problem. The other 95 percent just wasn't visible to them," a Gulf Arab diplomat said. "It's a very dangerous situation. It's painful."

Qatar, a staunch U.S. ally, said it feared civil war could break out in Iraq and that the country was becoming a "fertile ground for (various) terrorists."

"The developments in Iraq are alarming and we fear that we are facing a civil war in Iraq like Afghanistan and Lebanon," Qatari Foreign Minister Sheikh Hamad bin Jassim al-Thani said.

"We cannot leave Iraq in this state because this disease will spread and I believe the situation is out of control."

U.S. troops in Iraq, under attack for a year by Sunni Muslims and Saddam loyalists, now risk a major conflict with the Shi'ite majority. They had been seen as allies in their opposition to Saddam, who brutally suppressed them.

Fighting between U.S.-led forces and Sadr's supporters flared after the administration arrested one of his aides and closed a militant newspaper. It has spread since the authorities then vowed to arrest 30-year-old Sadr in connection with the killing of a Shi'ite cleric last year. His group denies any involvement in the killing.

IRAQ QUAGMIRE

"The Americans appear to be sinking into the Iraqi quagmire. I dread to think about the repercussions on the region in case Iraq disintegrates into wider chaos," said a Jordanian official who declined to be identified.

Arab leaders worry that if the United States falters and Iraq degenerates they will be left with a failed state spreading instability and terror through the region.

"There are seeds for civil war. The ingredients are there -- the trigger and the explosive -- and this is bringing us nearer to civil war. There are three levels, Arabs against Kurds, Shi'ites against Sunnis and everyone against the United States," said Mustafa Alani, of London's Royal United Services Institute.

"If there is war between the Shi'ites and Sunnis, then other countries, especially Iran, will decide at (some) stage to put in their weight and this will encourage other countries to do so too, like what happened in Lebanon," he added.

Violence between Shi'ites and U.S. forces has led to suggestions that more troops might be sent in, but President Bush insists a transitional Iraqi government will take power as planned on June 30.

JINXED IRAQ

Soli Ozel, an associate fellow at the Royal Institute of International Affairs, said: "If Iraq falls apart, other states will start backing their own groups and will suck everyone in.

"I believe the genie is out of the bottle," he added.

Western diplomats say regional heavyweight Saudi Arabia is troubled by its lack of leverage over events in its northern neighbor and fears the violence could have an impact on Sunni militants as well as incite the Saudi Shi'ite minority.

Western observers say militants continue to travel between Saudi Arabia and Iraq, which has come to be seen as a training ground for fighters who may one day return home to take on authorities in the kingdom, already battling a wave of violence by followers of al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden.

The first sign of Saudi Shi'ite demands came last year, just weeks after Saddam's fall, when 450 Shi'ite figures presented a petition for more rights.

There is also concern that Shi'ites in Sunni-ruled Bahrain, where they are a majority, might also be spurred by the rising power of those in Iraq.

And analysts say if that was not enough, increased Kurdish power in Iraq has already created ripples, with unrest last month among Kurdish minorities in neighboring Syria and Iran.

WhyNow2000

This is mean:

"LIE CLOCKS"

A man died and went to heaven. As he stood in front of St. Peter at the
Pearly Gates, he saw a huge wall of clocks behind him. He asked, "What are
all those clocks?"
St. Peter answered, "Those are Lie-Clocks. Everyone on Earth has a
Lie-Clock. Every time you lie the hands on your clock will move."
"Oh," said the man, "whose clock is that?"
"That's Mother Teresa's. The hands have never moved, indicating that she
never told a lie."
"Incredible," said the man. "And whose clock is that one?"
St. Peter responded, "That's Abraham Lincoln's clock. The hands have moved
twice, telling us that Abe told only two lies in his entire life."
"Where's Bush's clock?" asked the man.
"Bush's clock is in Jesus' office. He's using it as a ceiling fan."

Bwaha ha ha ... remember that one? from Bumpsfelt who seems to be keeping his head down nowadays doesn't he? Doesn't like being on the news to answer questions so much now does he?

Powell admits Iraq evidence mistake

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