Powell admits Iraq evidence mistake

by Simon 128 Replies latest social current

  • Yerusalyim
    Yerusalyim

    Hmmmm? No one wants to talk about this stuff...our the Iraqi in Australia who says some WMD are in Bunkers under the college, etc.

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    WMD report provides respite for coalition BRIAN BRADY IT WAS hardly a comprehensive endorsement of their stubborn insistence that Saddam Hussein had Weapons of Mass Destruction, but it was as positive as George Bush and Tony Blair have heard for several months.

    When the last Iraqi weapons inspector, David Kay, quit three months ago, his parting shot, warning that coalition leaders were "almost all wrong" in their pre-war assessment that Iraq had WMD, was viewed as a devastating indictment of the decision to go to war in the first place.

    So when his successor in charge of the Iraq Survey Group (ISG), Charles Duelfer, took his place before a Congressional hearing last week, they hoped for a little better. Duelfer delivered more than that.

    The second interim report from the ISG, which remains a strictly confidential document, reads like a billet-doux, compared to the horror stories presented in the past by Kay and the former United Nations chief weapons inspector, Hans Blix.

    "Iraq did have facilities suitable for the production of biological and chemical agents needed for weapons," Duelfer said, in a declassified version of the report, obtained by Scotland on Sunday. "It had plans to expand and even build new facilities.

    "There were plans under the direction of a leading nuclear scientist/WMD program manager to construct plants capable of making a variety of chemicals and producing a year?s supply of any chemical in a month. This was a crash program."

    Duelfer also revealed that Saddam had used up to £500m a year from illicit arms sales to fund his Military Industrialised Commission weapons development programme, which appeared to be developing a nuclear capability, as well as a long-range missile system with the assistance of North Korea.

    Chemical weapons, biological agents, production up until the very eve of the war itself, the hint of nuclear technology and the involvement of another pariah state: the ISG had done its work well. Where his predecessors brought negativity, Duelfer appears relentlessly upbeat. "It is hopeful," one restrained Foreign Office official said last night of the five-page summary, which breathed new life into the flagging campaign to prove Saddam?s guilt. "It looks better."

    Duelfer?s first report is, indeed, an advance on its precedents, in substance as well as tone: his document is peppered with references to new information, new discoveries and progress on earlier revelations. But it is also liberally sprinkled with caveats and warnings as to the difficulties in turning up more evidence. Ultimately, it still fails to produce any tangible proof of the wide-scale WMD programmes the coalition assured the world lay within Saddam?s empire, and widely touted as the justification for the conflict.

    The ISG has 1,400 staff in the field in Iraq, almost 70 from the UK, and a huge budget. It has worked around the clock for almost a year to uncover the truth about Iraq?s alleged arsenal. Duelfer confirmed that his staff had visited thousands of sites, spoken to hundreds of experts and turned up millions of pages of official documents. Yet they have still produced nothing that could charitably be described as a WMD.

    Moreover, opponents of the war maintain that Duelfer?s full findings are even less conclusive - and, in fact, even cast doubt on the basic claim that Saddam had WMD in the first place.

    Democrat senator Carl Levin has now challenged the CIA, which controls the survey group, to declassify the entire report, claiming it gives a misleading impression of the view on the ground in Iraq.

    "Mr Duelfer?s statement is written to express the author?s ?suspicions? as to Iraq?s activities relating to possible weapons of mass destruction programmes or activities while leaving out information in the classified report which points away from his suspicions," said Levin, who is the Democrats? most senior defence spokesman.

    It is a troubling accusation, which neither Duelfer nor the CIA has yet confronted, but it illustrates the climate of scepticism surrounding the ISG?s work. The lack of trust is also felt in Iraq, as well as in Washington and London. Duelfer, who has spent the last six weeks in Baghdad, complained that many former officials of the Saddam regime refused to speak.

    "On one hand, there is a fear of prosecution or arrest. On the other, there is a fear [that] former regime supporters will exact retribution," he reported. Then, in an almost plaintive remark which exposed the true difficulty of his task, he added: "The people we need to speak to have spent their entire professional lives being trained not to speak about WMD."

    Saddam Hussein has been defeated militarily and he lies in captivity, but he remains a powerful opponent of Bush and Blair as they continue the fight to win the post-conflict argument.

    Duelfer appears a willing helper, but he may yet fall victim to the circumstances that demoralised his predecessors. His strategy for succeeding where they failed, however, owes more to psychology than practical action in the deserts of Iraq.
  • roybatty
    roybatty
    bush does not want to get out of iraq and neither does halliburton and co. if the US leaves (extremely unlikely) than only because the invasion is more expansive than anyone has forseen.

    Why turn over power to the Iraqi Governing Counsel this summer? Why not drag things out like is being done in the former Yugoslavia republics? Why doesn't Bush say "well, rebuilding a country takes time..blah...blah..blah" ????

  • roybatty
    roybatty
    Tell me exactly and in detail how it is the US has shit on anyone in the middle east...by buying their oil? Perhaps the fault lies with their leaders who are always pointing their fingers at the US so that no one is looking at them as their robbing their own people blind.

    Let's see, which countries ruled over the middle east and north africa....hmmm...which country helped (and is helping) to bring democracy there? Which country ruled over the largest Muslim nation in the world (Indonesia) for hundreds of years and which country expelled the Japanese from this same country and encouraged this European nation to leave? Which country have given billions of dollars to Arab nations of the world? hmmmm...seems to me that the Muslims who are pissed at the US need to look at the facts.

  • Simon
    Simon

    erm ... if Iraq was a big world power and had installed and supported some terrible leader like Saddam (or Bush, LOL) on you in the USA then WOULDN'T YOU BE A LITTLE PISSED ?

    The trick to understanding the situation is to have some empathy and sympathy for what the ordinary people have been through and look at what caused the suffering.

    Some pratt in the pentagon decides it's a good idea to bomb somewhere or arm a bunch of fanatics and voila, you have a bunch of people getting hurt and seeing their kids / parents / sibblings killed and mutiliated.

    You have given them a reason to hate you and to seek revenge.

  • patio34
    patio34

    Hi Realist,

    You said:

    same question to you as to plm, what is the source of the arab hate against the US?

    are you two at all aware of the palestinian conflict? the role the US played in iran, the embargo against iraq that cost the life of over half a million peolpe, the attacks against lybia, etc. ?

    The question wasn't to me, but I'd like to give a bit of an answer. Even though our august President said "they hate us because we're free," it seems to bit a bit deeper than that. Some of the things that I've read are that the

    • US has been involved in Arab politics since the 50s and the US felt it had to maintain a presence because of the oil there.
    • Israel is in possession of 200 nuclear weapons against UN and has never allowed an inspection.
    • The US has been charged as using Israel as a hit man in the area.
    • Democratically elected leaders have been deposed in favor of US corporation-friendly dictators.
    • The sanctions on Iraq were more than trade, as Blacksheep posited. It was on medicines and many other necessary items. The UN (US & UK) punished the people of Iraq, not Hussein who lived fine.
    • The US has befriended other regimes (e.g., Saudia Arabia) who are as bad as Hussein's was and that supplied most of the terrorists in the attack on the WTC.

    The trouble is that most Americans aren't informed of the historical, broad context of present hatreds and troubles. They didn't arise out of a vacuum. Arabs & Muslims haven't decided to hate America for no reason and to think so is just continuing the problem.

    The reason that the US was so intent on attacking Iraq may be that this was to support their newly announced policy (President Bush's) of "pre-emptive war" on anyone whom we deemed to be a thread, without it being legal in international law. Iraq is thought to be an example to show the US means business, so they picked one of the most defenseless nations they could to attack---right in the midst of the oil-rich countries---to show that they damned well mean it. Of course this last paragraph is theory, but based on a lot of data. Anyone here read Project for a New American Century? They should before they form an opinon on why the US went to war with Iraq. It's at:

    http://www.newamericancentury.org/

    ABC's review of this document signed by Cheney, Wolfowitz, Rumsfield, etc. is at

    http://www.abcnews.go.com/sections/nightline/DailyNews/pnac_030310.html

    Here's a part of it:

    "The group, the Project for the New American Century, or PNAC, was founded in 1997. Among its supporters were three Republican former officials who were sitting out the Democratic presidency of Bill Clinton: Donald Rumsfeld, Dick Cheney and Paul Wolfowitz.
    In open letters to Clinton and GOP congressional leaders the next year, the group called for "the removal of Saddam Hussein's regime from power" and a shift toward a more assertive U.S. policy in the Middle East, including the use of force if necessary to unseat Saddam.
    And in a report just before the 2000 election that would bring Bush to power, the group predicted that the shift would come about slowly, unless there were "some catastrophic and catalyzing event, like a new Pearl Harbor."
    That event came on Sept. 11, 2001. By that time, Cheney was vice president, Rumsfeld was secretary of defense, and Wolfowitz his deputy at the Pentagon. "

    Of course, there's many other reviews of it, if you're interested in it.

    Respectfully,

    Pat

  • FirstInLine
    FirstInLine

    Realist,

    You should change your name to Ridiculousness. I have been with you in the past but you have proven yourself insane on this thread. You basically are telling me that, even though I am against my President, my sworn enemy, Al Qaeda is justified in killing me because the US government had an embargo with Iraq.

    Not only that but you are now basically demanding that Americans reject America to be considered moral according to you.

    Here is the deal. I hope you have a few brain cells left. The terrorists HATE democracy. They love radical Theocracy, their theocracy. We spread democracy which is a threat to their idealism. It is that simple. Democracy promotes women's rights, freedom to committ sin, free criticism of religion ...etc. Stop thinking with your sphincter.

  • FirstInLine
    FirstInLine

    Yeru,

    I love all you f***ing excuse makers for the terrorists...sometimes you people make me absolutely nauses. Does the name Tokyo Rose sound familiar?

    I usually dismiss comments of yours like these as trite manifestations of your war doctrine but in this case I will say that isnt harsh enough against ridiculousne...er, Realist.

  • Realist
    Realist

    patio,

    i love you!!! :-*

    thank god there are people out there like you who can see through all the BS put forward by the mainstream media and the bush admin!!!

    firstinline,

    ???

    You basically are telling me that, even though I am against my President, my sworn enemy, Al Qaeda is justified in killing me because the US government had an embargo with Iraq.

    exactly WHERE did i say that?????????

    i said i do NOT condone the killing of innocent people!

    however, i understand that arabs especially in iraq hate the US for what they have done and that they want justice.

    yeru,

    No one wants to talk about this stuff

    thats because it was 4 am in europe! :)

    Somebody help me out here...maybe I'm just a complete idiot...how does relaying intelligence that later proves to be wrong equate to telling a lie?

    ok you have two options here...either you admit the documents were made up and thus the US lied in the security council meeting or you admit the CIA is the greates pile of bullshit ever. i mean powell presented docus to the UN that were in the possession of the CIA for month and it took the UN one day to show they were poorly farbicated forgeries.

    Tell me exactly and in detail how it is the US has shit on anyone in the middle east...by buying their oil? Perhaps the fault lies with their leaders who are always pointing their fingers at the US so that no one is looking at them as their robbing their own people blind.

    you want a complete list?

    the most obvious were already listed by patio!

    but for you one more time...unconditional support for israel, embargo against iraq that killed hundreds of thousands of people, support for corrupt regimes, attacks against lybia etc....

    one question as a side note....what do you think of the french resistance agains the germans in WWII? was that terrorism or were those freedom fighters? how about the taliban against the russians in afghanistan? terrorists or freedom fighters? ...

    roy,

    it might not have escaped your attention that the US and its companies do not intend to leave iraq with or without the council being established. but since the US budget is worse than ever before bush tries to get some idiots to help the US (poland! italy, spain etc.) without getting much in return.

  • patio34
    patio34

    Hi Realist,

    It looks as if we're in the same tribe. I don't even think it's "liberals" or Democrats---it's people who are willing to look a little deeper than what is being said by Bush, et al. My closest friend is a Republican, but can see when we're being had and is well-informed.

    But some people put all their trust in the likes of Fox news and Rush Limbaugh and wear blinders and think it's all lies. I had a friend like that. To me, it's becoming pretty despicable to be uninformed and adamantly supporting Bush and denying, denying, denying all the stuff that's irrefutable about Bush, et al.

    Here's another reason Arabs now have to hate us:

    We attacked a country for no good reason. Even the alleged reasons have been proven flimsy---no, false. Hussein HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THE ATTACK!!!! I don't get it how people can still defend the invasion, lol.

    Al Queda probably thinks we're the greatest recruiter for them.

    thank god there are people out there like you who can see through all the BS put forward by the mainstream media and the bush admin!!!

    Don't fear Realist (good name), I work for the local government and the amount of people there who seem to know the score on Bush is probably about 65% because they are pretty informed. I think as time goes on and even more facts and maybe whistle-blowers bail on Bush, even the neocons will have to realize it is not in the country's best interests to keep him as leader.

    I want the country to go in a better direction. Things don't seem very good to me the way it's heading.

    You also said French were called the resistance. Have you noticed that often in the media the attacks on the occupying forces are called insurgents and not terrorists?

    Pat

  • patio34
    patio34

    Ah, Yeru, know your friends, but know your enemies better. You ranted:

    I love all you f***ing excuse makers for the terrorists...sometimes you people make me absolutely nauses. Does the name Tokyo Rose sound familiar?

    What you call "excuse makers" is slander. Understanding the past is essential to making good decisions. Forgetting the past is fatal.

    And the 2nd statement is the usual bs of "if you're not with us, you're with the terrorists" of your leader, linking dissenters with "Tokyo Rose." That takes a lot of nerve, but I guess you're a True Believer.

    I'm looking forward to saying "You're Fired" to the Bush regime this fall.

    Pat

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