Around 70% of the American people, which had include a lot of Democrats, think that we did the right thing even if no WMD are found - probably in part because they know Powell wouldn't willingly lie to us. Americans see these mass graves, the most recent containing up to 15,000 bodies. We went to Iraq to free it, not to put its people under our thumb. That's why my real question, if we don't find these WMDs, isn't a political one. It's this: "Where are they and who has them now?"
Powell admits Iraq evidence mistake
by Simon 128 Replies latest social current
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ThiChi
Around 70% of the American people, which had include a lot of Democrats, think that we did the right thing even if no WMD are found - probably in part because they know Powell wouldn't willingly lie to us. Americans see these mass graves, the most recent containing up to 15,000 bodies. We went to Iraq to free it, not to put its people under our thumb. That's why my real question, if we don't find these WMDs, isn't a political one. It's this: "Where are they and who has them now?"
I would remind all of you that the administration gave many reasons given for kicking out Saddam. It started out as WMD, then to the Al-Qaeda ties, regime change and democratizing the region. But we also know we had 17 UN resolutions, including 1441, that said Iraq had failed to disarm and would face "serious consequences" if it didn't come clean instantly.
Critics ignore uncomfortable facts such as this from President Bush's speech to the United Nations on September 12, 2002. Bush mentions weapons of mass destruction briefly, and then cites Iraq's support for terrorism, its persecution of civilians, its failure to obey Security Council resolutions, "release or account for all Gulf War personnel," return the remains and return stolen property, "accept liability for losses resulting from the invasion of Kuwait and fully cooperate with international efforts to resolve these issues, as required by Security Council resolutions." Bush cited the Oil for Food program, which turned out to be Kofi Annan's private Enron.
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Realist
thichi,
holy cow you still exist! i was worried about you man!
ok having said that lets go back to buisness!
probably in part because they know Powell wouldn't willingly lie to us
what the hell are you smoking lately??? they KNOW a politician would NOT lie to them??? HELLO!!! on what planet are you ????
Bush mentions weapons of mass destruction briefly (bush LIE # 1), and then cites Iraq's support for terrorism (LIE 2), its persecution of civilians (all right thats a point BUT it seems the US will have to get a little tougher with these guys also in order to prevent a civil war), its failure to obey Security Council resolutions (Speculation), return the remains and return stolen property (LIE 3), "accept liability for losses resulting from the invasion of Kuwait and fully cooperate with international efforts to resolve these issues, as required by Security Council resolutions (LIE 4. the oil for food deal involved that large parts of the money went into reparations and since iraq has no other resources all other demands are rediculous)
I would remind all of you that the administration gave many reasons given for kicking out Saddam. It started out as WMD (after that was proven a lie lets move to number 2), then to the Al-Qaeda ties (which was also proven to be a lie), regime change and democratizing the region (we will see how well this works out!).
you are in mayor denial my friend!!!!!!
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Crazy151drinker
UnRealistic,
When you mentioned the Libya attacks where you talking about Reagan bombing them or the Pan Am flight??? Which occured first...
The Situation in Iran is our fault. Yes, we screwed up with the Shah but that was based on a faulty CIA report. Regardless, as we have seen in the past few months in regards to the Iranian elections, the hardliners are now ignoring the peoples wishes (you know, that whole democracy thing which you fear...). So in Iran we have a situation where the EDUCATED, and the General Population want CHANGE and the Religous NUTS want to keep their dictatorship.
America responsible for the death of a Million people in Iraq? So the fact that Saddam kept all the money and starved his people had nothing to do with it......
But once again you should have no fear~ The oil will run out soon and the MIddle East will once again turn into a worthless sandbox that no-one cares about
An ever better Idea- Since all the crazy Mulisms think that dying in War gets them into Heaven, why doesnt Isreal just nuke the entire Middle East! Think how many People would go to Heaven! You would think that the Fundamentalist leadership would want all of their followers to go to Heaven no??? So please, attack Isreal so you can go to Heaven!
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Realist
crazy,
reagan bombed lybia killing innocent people without and solid evidence.
Yes, we screwed up with the Shah but that was based on a faulty CIA report.
eliminating mossadeq and supporting a criminal leadership was caused by faulty intelligence reports? hardly.
So in Iran we have a situation where the EDUCATED, and the General Population want CHANGE and the Religous NUTS want to keep their dictatorship.
just to make one thing clear, i am not a friend of religion in general. i am a die hard agnostic with strong tendencies to atheism! so i have no sympathy for these nuts...but its irans problem! 25 years ago the vast majority of the EDUCATED people were for the removal of the shah and the installation of the current regime. and i don't know how large the percentage of people is who want a change.
America responsible for the death of a Million people in Iraq? So the fact that Saddam kept all the money and starved his people had nothing to do with it......
oil for food was established after several years of starvation and still did not allow for the import of vital medical equipment including many necessary drugs. madelein albright addmitted the 1 million by the way.
But once again you should have no fear~ The oil will run out soon and the MIddle East will once again turn into a worthless sandbox that no-one cares about
exactly my point!
An ever better Idea- Since all the crazy Mulisms think that dying in War gets them into Heaven, why doesnt Isreal just nuke the entire Middle East! Think how many People would go to Heaven! You would think that the Fundamentalist leadership would want all of their followers to go to Heaven no??? So please, attack Isreal so you can go to Heaven!
so sharon and co are less crazy? i tell you something ... give the arabs also a couple of nukes and when bush visits iraq the next time erase the entire area from the globe.
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Crazy151drinker
Realist,
Im sure Reagan had some idea that his good buddy Kaddafi was behind it.
Im all for the Middle East nuking it out.
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Realist
crazy,
i just looke dsomething up...
lybia was bombed BEFORE lockerbie!
here is an interesting site:
http://www.globalissues.org/Geopolitics/MiddleEast/TerrorInUSA/faq/Libya.asp
Libya and terrorism
Chris Tolworthy
March 2002Libya is often blamed for supporting terrorism. This may be true, as many countries support terrorism, but much of the evidence against Libya is open to doubt.
Some highly respected statesmen- such as Nelson Mandela - have supported Libya. When we look at the country's history, we can see why.
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1986 - The US bombs Libya, killing 101 people, including (apparently) Qaddhafi's adopted daughter.
1988 - Lybia is blamed for the Lockerbie bombing, even though several pieces of evidence pointed to Iran as the culprit.
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plmkrzy
Well, Russell is a Freemason. Pictures don't lie.
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blacksheep
"One good apple doesn't save the whole bunch," said Gene Sperling, a former economic aide during the Two facts that are not going to change are that when George W. Bush accepts the nomination of the Republican Party he will have the worst fiscal record in history and he will still be the only president since Herbert Hoover to preside over a net job loss."
Oh really? How are you measuring ?fiscal record?? Again, I?ll point to the Wall Street Journal (pretty good fiscal periodical---a bit more reliable than the NWT, which is basically a rag). Check out the stats for the last 6 re-election years:
Inflation Unemployment Misery Index
76-Ford 5.8% 7.7% 13.5%
80-Carter 13.5% 7.1% 20.6%
84-Regaen 4.3% 7.5% 11.8%
92-Bush I 3.0% 7.5% 10.5%
96-Clinton 3.0% 5.4% 8.4%
04-Bush 2.0% 5.7% 7.7
BTW, the Misery Index was created by the late economist Arthur Okun, basically adding inflation and unemployment. Funny, Bush has the lowest misery index (a very good thing).
Also keep in mind the technology bubble, and the inflated reported earnings of major corporations that appeared to boost the market, but in actuality was based on lies and subsequent scandals.
And, finally, did you read the entire NYT article?
Of the broad economic categories, only manufacturing experienced no job growth . Yet following 43 consecutive months of manufacturing job losses, the zero jobs "added" in March represented an improvement of sorts.
"There is only a silver lining. There are very few gray clouds," said Mr. Levy.
Sounds like even the NYT cannot deny the reality?even the guy they reference, Mr. Levy, sees the optimism. But as usual, the NYT puts there own spin on reality. And as they have an eager audience buying into that spin, you continue to have people ?crying and sighing? about how horrible things are.
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blacksheep
Oh, forgot, as to your 0 growth in manufacturing claim, the April 5 article in the WST says this:
"For those who fear that the US will somehow be stripped of high-paying jobs, consider how manufacturing, which was also supposed to be in terminal decline in the 1980s, is again coming back. Last week, an important factory index showed a high level of hiring, and output is at 20-year highs. High productivity growth has kept American manufacturers competitive, even in the face of low-wage competition.
Speaking of productivity growth, it's worth noting how little positive coverage this is attracting. Throughout the Reagan years when job creation was strong, the critics complained that productivity was lagging. Now that productivity is surging but employment has taken longer to bounce back than in other recoveries, the good news is again lost in the noise of lamentations."