Take George out of the equation.

by Thunder Rider 127 Replies latest social current

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  Realist

  yeru,

  thanks for the links! i didn't know that! according to the IMF between 1995 and 2000 arafat diverted 898 Millionen Dollars (from income tax on gas, tabacco, alcohol, plus incomes from the companies controlled by arafat) to bank accounts and out of those invested 700 millions into 70 different palestinian and other companies. he himself spends hardly anything but his wife requires about 1 million dollars per year. furthermore the world bank and the G-7 report no evidence of arafat sponsoring terror.

  the true problem is however not the wealth of bin laden or arafat but the poverty of the masses! so it is next to the problem of steeling the land and killing the inhabitants very much also a question of haves and have nots! if you have wealthy people living on one side and refugees living on the other of course you are gonna have a problem even without the history connected to it.
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  doodle-v
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  RevMalk

  That's good, I like that!
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  Yerusalyim

  the true problem is however not the wealth of bin laden or arafat but the poverty of the masses! so it is next to the problem of steeling the land and killing the inhabitants very much also a question of haves and have nots! if you have wealthy people living on one side and refugees living on the other of course you are gonna have a problem even without the history connected to it.

  And on this note perhaps we can begin to have a real conversation as to possible solutions. WHO is it that makes and keeps these people poor? The "peverty of the masses" is caused by their own leaders who then encourage the ANTI US, ANTI ISRAEL sentiment to take the heat off themselves.

  Stealing land? Most of the land Israel occuppied it had paid good money for. Why wan't "stealing land" an issue when the Jordanians and Egyptians occuppied the West Bank and Gaza and exploited the Palestinians?

  As to the haves and have nots...in what middle east country do Arabs have the highest standard of living? Israel!
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  Realist

  yeru,

  WHO is it that makes and keeps these people poor? The "peverty of the masses" is caused by their own leaders who then encourage the ANTI US, ANTI ISRAEL sentiment to take the heat off themselves.

  as is stated before the arabs are largely uneducated people with a very different social structure than europeans or modern jews. their religion does not help the matter either. and yes their leaders take advantage of this.

  but i am afraid this is not the whole story. corrupt leaders are supported by the west if they serve the interests of the cooperations (oil primarily). good leaders are discredited or removed. the involvment of the west is one of the essential problems in the region because it is not focused on helping to develop these countries but on getting their oil. (as is true in africa!)

  Stealing land? Most of the land Israel occuppied it had paid good money for. Why wan't "stealing land" an issue when the Jordanians and Egyptians occuppied the West Bank and Gaza and exploited the Palestinians?

  again yeru when you look at land ownership in 1946 (official UN numbers) than you cannot keep the claim up that israel payed for most of its land. this is simply not true.

  and in regards to the west bank and gaza...this is occupied territory. no one allowed the jews to build settlements there. i am sorry but this is clear injustice. if you cannot see and accept that than it is pointless to continue this discussion.

  also you seem to ignore the mentality of the arabs when you say egypt stole the west bank. the arabs living there have no problem with being under egyption control. they do not want to be controlled by jews who disrespect, hate and dominate them. and yes jews do hate arabs and yes they do treat them badly.

  As to the haves and have nots...in what middle east country do Arabs have the highest standard of living? Israel!

  yes of course! why? because they got people with excellent european education, highly motivated workers and leaders and a gigantic amount of money from germany the US and others.

  to think you could develop the same state without outside help and only arab workers is naive.
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  Yerusalyim

  Realist,

  To listen to you it almost sounds like you have the Southern US mentality during slavery..."these poor arabs are too dumb to take care of themselves or know what's good for themselves" It really sounds to me like that's what you're saying. The US didn't put the House of Saud in power, they did that themselves...we came AFTER they came to power. The west didn't put Mubarak in power, the Egyptians themselves did...The UK did put the Husseins in power in Jordan...but Jordan is one of the better countries in the middle east.

  The west didn't put Saddam in power, nor the Ahyatolla, nor the Syrian government...so quit blaming the west.
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  Realist

  yeru,

  like it or not, the average arab is uneducated and far more religious than the average european. and their family structure and clan structure is also very prohibitive to development. i don't think they are genetically retarded but socially.
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  Yerusalyim

  like it or not, the average arab is uneducated and far more religious than the average european. and their family structure and clan structure is also very prohibitive to development. i don't think they are genetically retarded but socially.

  The first impulse was to charge you with being a racist as Breten did me...but, there's some grain of truth to what youu say. Clan loyalty outweighs almost every factor. Screw the country...clan loyalty comes first. The single biggest issue I see is either lack of free press (fair and balanced...Al Jahzirah doesn't count) and the anti American hype it's government feeds it.