Freedom to Choose God

by UnDisfellowshipped 774 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Deputy Dog
    Deputy Dog

    Undisfellowshipped

    In 1st Timothy 2:1 (KJV): I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, [and] giving of thanks, be made for all men

    Do you think Paul is telling Timothy to pray for every single man on earth? How many did he know by name? Do you think he asked him to pray for the species? Could he be using the phrase "all men" in a generic sense? Could he be asking him to pray for all types (old men, young men, wise men, simple men, men of authority, servents, slaves, free men, rich, poor, women, children, ...) of men?

    D Dog

  • UnDisfellowshipped
    UnDisfellowshipped

    Deputy Dog said:

    Undisfellowshipped

    In 1st Timothy 2:1 (KJV): I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, [and] giving of thanks, be made for all men

    Do you think Paul is telling Timothy to pray for every single man on earth? How many did he know by name? Do you think he asked him to pray for the species? Could he be using the phrase "all men" in a generic sense? Could he be asking him to pray for all types (old men, young men, wise men, simple men, men of authority, servents, slaves, free men, rich, poor, women, children, ...) of men?

    That could very well have been what Paul was saying.

    But let me ask an important question then about your belief.

    Why would Paul exhort Christians to pray and make intercessions for "all men" (even in the generic sense), when obviously several of these "all men" were NOT "predestinated" by God to be saved, and thus were predestinated by God to go to Hell?

    Why would Paul say that we should pray and make intercessions for men who were destined for Hell with no chance of being saved? That does not make a lot of sense to me.

    Also, I just wanted to say to both you and Ellderwho, that I am not ignoring you, I have just been extremely busy the last few days, and I am now fighting a cold.

    I will reply ASAP.

  • Deputy Dog
    Deputy Dog

    Undisfellowshipped You asked,

    Why would Paul say that we should pray and make intercessions for men who were destined for Hell with no chance of being saved? That does not make a lot of sense to me.

    I believe all humans that ever lived, have received Gods common grace. To have life at all, is a blessing (or grace) from God, and so are all the blessings of this life. None of which anyone deserves. But, only His children receive Gods' uncommon (or special) grace. This would be eternal life, with Him and the blessings that go with it. How should we, who are his children, who have received his uncommon grace, live among other people? We do not know who God has chosen or who he will choose. Should we withhold grace, from people who may not receive it after this life? As we live among men, we should demonstrate Gods' love and grace, because it may be the only grace they receive. In their condemnation they will see that they received Gods' love and grace many times, and denied its source. Paul shared your love for the lost, and he felt your pain, t his is why Paul was so heavy hearted in Romans 9:2-5 " That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart. For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh: Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God , and the promises; Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came , who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen." Paul knew that they were not all chosen, look at verse 6 "Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:" Paul goes on to teach that Jews are just like everyone else, not everyone is a child of God. If you go on to read the rest of the chapter in that light, it takes on a new meaning for me. I hope this makes some sense to you. Take care of that cold! D Dog

  • ellderwho
    ellderwho
    Undis states, I am absolutely convinced that the God who created our minds would not want anyone to accept anything as truth without making sure of the facts.
    That was why I quoted those Scriptures, which show that the God of the Bible wants people to carefully examine the facts and then decide what the truth is.

    Have you considered the following verses?

    Ro. 8:4-8 He (Jesus) condemned sin in the flesh, 4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, 7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, 8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

    Eph.2: 1 And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, 2 in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world,

    Eph.2:15,16 by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances, so that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace, 16 and might reconcile them both in one body to God through the cross, by it having put to death the enmity.

    We are told first that our carnal mind cannot be in subjection to Gods law because it is hostile towards God. Secondly we are dead in our sins so theres no pleasing God here. Thirdly we are at enmity with God we do not want to "know Him" (Trying not to preach to the choir) And lastly Jesus ends the enmity of the flesh, makes peace for the reconciliation.

    With the above verses in mind, your statement,

    God who created our minds would not want anyone to accept anything as truth without making sure of the facts

    Are you suggesting that with a little "enlightenment" and some careful study to make sure of the facts, anyone should be able to overcome this enmity that exist between God and us?

    IMHO your statement leaves you depending upon yourself.

    BTW I know your not ignoring me or the D.Dog

  • Deputy Dog
    Deputy Dog

    Undisfellowshipped

    You said,

    Christians should not favor a certain Chapter (such as let's say, Romans Chapter 9) and then discount another Chapter (let's say 1st Timothy Chapter 2). Rather, they should study both Chapters which seem to contradict one another and then decide what the truth is.

    We agree! So lets do just that. Can we agree that the primary teaching (context) of 1st Timothy 2 is, about Public worship, specifically verses 1-8 are about public prayer in worship and 9-15 are about women in public worship? If so, then what would you say, is the primary teaching or context of Romans 9:1-29?

    D Dog

    Hope your feeling better!

  • UnDisfellowshipped
    UnDisfellowshipped

    I have closely examined, studied, and have prayed about what the Scriptures actually say in Ephesians Chapters 1 and 2, and in Romans Chapters 8 and 9, and in some other Chapters, and I am going to post my beliefs about those Verses below:

    All Scriptures below are from the New King James Version (NKJV): Ephesians 1:3-14: Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He made us accepted in the Beloved. In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace which He made to abound toward us in all wisdom and prudence, having made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He purposed in Himself, that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth--in Him. In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will, that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory. In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory. My Comments on Ephesians Chapter 1: 1: Ephesians Chapter 1 says that before the foundation of the world, The Father chose that Christians should be "holy and without blame before Him in love." 2: Ephesians Chapter 1 says that The Father predestined Christians to be adopted through Jesus Christ as sons of God. 3: Ephesians Chapter 1 says that The Father predestined that Christians should "be to the praise of His glory." 4: Ephesians Chapter 1 shows that people are NOT saved or sealed until AFTER they (1) hear the Gospel and (2) believe the Gospel and (3) receive the Holy Spirit into their hearts. Ephesians Chapter 1 in no way contradicts my beliefs about salvation. Ephesians 2:1-22: A nd you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others. But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them. Therefore remember that you, once Gentiles in the flesh--who are called Uncircumcision by what is called the Circumcision made in the flesh by hands--that at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity. And He came and preached peace to you who were afar off and to those who were near. For through Him we both have access by one Spirit to the Father. Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone, in whom the whole building, being fitted together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord, in whom you also are being built together for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit. My Comments about Ephesians Chapter 2: 1: Ephesians Chapter 2 says that God prepared beforehand the good works that Christians should do. 2: Ephesians Chapter 2 shows that if humans were left on their own, no one would ever seek God. 3: Ephesians Chapter 2 shows that every human is born as a sinner who is a slave of his own sinful, corrupted flesh, and also a slave of Satan; and is completely separated from God, lost with no hope, dead in his sins. 4: Ephesians Chapter 2 shows that people are saved only by God's grace through faith in Jesus Christ -- we cannot possibly ever earn or deserve salvation. No good works can save anyone. Ephesians Chapter 2 in no way contradicts my beliefs about salvation. Romans 8:28-30: And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified. My Comments about Romans Chapter 8: 1: Romans Ch. 8 shows that God makes everything work out good eventually for Christians. 2: Romans Ch. 8 shows that God foreknew Christians (and He even foreknew which ones would be saved), and that God also predestined that Christians would be "conformed to the image of His Son." 3: Romans Ch. 8 shows that God "called" Christians and the ones who love God are justified by Him. Note, however, that not all people whom God has "called" have been saved: Matthew 20:16: So the last will be first, and the first last. For many are called, but few chosen." Matthew 22:1-14: A nd Jesus answered and spoke to them again by parables and said: "The kingdom of heaven is like a certain king who arranged a marriage for his son, and sent out his servants to call those who were invited to the wedding; and they were not willing to come. Again, he sent out other servants, saying, 'Tell those who are invited, "See, I have prepared my dinner; my oxen and fatted cattle are killed, and all things are ready. Come to the wedding."' But they made light of it and went their ways, one to his own farm, another to his business. And the rest seized his servants, treated them spitefully, and killed them. But when the king heard about it, he was furious. And he sent out his armies, destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city. Then he said to his servants, 'The wedding is ready, but those who were invited were not worthy. Therefore go into the highways, and as many as you find, invite to the wedding.' So those servants went out into the highways and gathered together all whom they found, both bad and good. And the wedding hall was filled with guests. "But when the king came in to see the guests, he saw a man there who did not have on a wedding garment. So he said to him, 'Friend, how did you come in here without a wedding garment?' And he was speechless. Then the king said to the servants, 'Bind him hand and foot, take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.' "For many are called, but few are chosen." Galatians 1:6-9: I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed. Also, God has "called" ALL Christians to live holy lives, but not all who have been "called" live holy lives: 1st Thessalonians 4:3-8: For this is the will of God, your sanctification: that you should abstain from sexual immorality; that each of you should know how to possess his own vessel in sanctification and honor, not in passion of lust, like the Gentiles who do not know God; that no one should take advantage of and defraud his brother in this matter, because the Lord is the avenger of all such, as we also forewarned you and testified. For God did not call us to uncleanness, but in holiness. Therefore he who rejects this does not reject man, but God, who has also given us His Holy Spirit. That Scripture shows that a man can reject the calling of God and can reject the will of God. Romans Chapter 8 in no way contradicts my beliefs about salvation. Romans 9:10-24: And not only this, but when Rebecca also had conceived by one man, even by our father Isaac (for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls), it was said to her, "The older shall serve the younger." As it is written, "Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated." What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? Certainly not! For He says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion." So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy. For the Scripture says to the Pharaoh, "For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I may show My power in you, and that My name may be declared in all the earth." Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens. You will say to me then, "Why does He still find fault? For who has resisted His will?" But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to him who formed it, "Why have you made me like this?" Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor? What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory, even us whom He called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles? My Comments about Romans Chapter 9: 1: God has mercy on whomever He chooses to have mercy on. 2: God hardens whomever He chooses to harden. 3: God's mercy is not dependant on any good works or bad works that people do -- God chooses to do whatever He chooses to do. Romans Chapter 9 in no way contradicts my beliefs about salvation. 1st Peter 1:1-2: P eter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To the pilgrims of the Dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace to you and peace be multiplied. My Comments about 1st Peter Chapter 1: 1: According to the foreknowledge of God, Christians were elected to be sanctified by The Spirit and to be obedient to Jesus and to be sprinkled with Jesus' Blood. 1st Peter Chapter 1 in no way contradicts my beliefs about salvation. 2nd Timothy 1:8-10: Therefore do not be ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me His prisoner, but share with me in the sufferings for the gospel according to the power of God, who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began, but has now been revealed by the appearing of our Savior Jesus Christ, who has abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel, My Comments about 2nd Timothy Chapter 1: 1: God calls and saves people by reason of His own purpose, and not due to any works. 2: Before time began, God purposed through Jesus, to give Christians His grace. 2nd Timothy Chapter 1 in no way contradicts my beliefs about salvation. 2nd Thessalonians 2:13-14: But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth, to which He called you by our gospel, for the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. My Comments about 2nd Thessalonians Chapter 2: 1: From the beginning, God chose to save Christians through (1) the sanctification of The Spirit and (2) belief in the Gospel. 2: God calls people through the Gospel. Acts 13:44-48: On the next Sabbath almost the whole city came together to hear the word of God. But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy; and contradicting and blaspheming, they opposed the things spoken by Paul. Then Paul and Barnabas grew bold and said, "It was necessary that the word of God should be spoken to you first; but since you reject it, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, behold, we turn to the Gentiles. For so the Lord has commanded us: ' I have set you as a light to the Gentiles, That you should be for salvation to the ends of the earth.'" Now when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and glorified the word of the Lord. And as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed. My Comments about Acts Chapter 13: 1: The Gospel was preached to "the Jews" first, and they could have believed, but instead they chose to reject the Gospel and to judge themselves as being unworthy of everlasting life. 2: To be honest, I am not yet sure what exactly Acts 13:48 means. I will continue to study and pray about that Verse.

  • UnDisfellowshipped
    UnDisfellowshipped

    Also, let's take a look at Acts Chapter 8: Acts 8:9-15: But there was a certain man called Simon, who previously practiced sorcery in the city and astonished the people of Samaria, claiming that he was someone great, to whom they all gave heed, from the least to the greatest, saying, "This man is the great power of God." And they heeded him because he had astonished them with his sorceries for a long time. But when they believed Philip as he preached the things concerning the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, both men and women were baptized. Then Simon himself also believed; and when he was baptized he continued with Philip, and was amazed, seeing the miracles and signs which were done. Now when the apostles who were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them, who, when they had come down, prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit. Notice that Simon clearly was enlightened with the truth when he saw the miracles, and it even says that Simon "believed" what he heard. But, was Simon Born Again? Acts 8:16-25: For as yet He had fallen upon none of them. They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Then they laid hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit. And when Simon saw that through the laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Spirit was given, he offered them money, saying, "Give me this power also, that anyone on whom I lay hands may receive the Holy Spirit." But Peter said to him, "Your money perish with you, because you thought that the gift of God could be purchased with money! You have neither part nor portion in this matter, for your heart is not right in the sight of God. Repent therefore of this your wickedness, and pray God if perhaps the thought of your heart may be forgiven you. For I see that you are poisoned by bitterness and bound by iniquity." Then Simon answered and said, "Pray to the Lord for me, that none of the things which you have spoken may come upon me." So when they had testified and preached the word of the Lord, they returned to Jerusalem, preaching the gospel in many villages of the Samaritans. This shows clearly that even though Simon had been "enlightened" and had even "believed" the Gospel (but even the demons believe) and had been baptized, that he was not yet Born Again or saved, because he had not yet repented of his sins and was still "bound by iniquity."

  • UnDisfellowshipped
    UnDisfellowshipped

    Also, let's look at God's calling of Jeremiah the prophet:

    Jeremiah 1: 4-5: Then the word of the L ORD came to me, saying: " Before I formed you in the womb I knew you; Before you were born I sanctified you; I ordained you a prophet to the nations."

    It does say that before Jeremiah was ever born, God knew him and God ordained him to be a prophet.

    However, that says nothing about God ordaining Jeremiah's eternal salvation.

    Notice, God had chosen others to act as prophets (such as King Saul), but they turned wicked and were not saved:

    1st Samuel 10:9-13: So it was, when he had turned his back to go from Samuel, that God gave him another heart; and all those signs came to pass that day. When they came there to the hill, there was a group of prophets to meet him; then the Spirit of God came upon him, and he prophesied among them. And it happened, when all who knew him formerly saw that he indeed prophesied among the prophets, that the people said to one another, "What is this that has come upon the son of Kish? Is Saul also among the prophets?" Then a man from there answered and said, "But who is their father?" Therefore it became a proverb: "Is Saul also among the prophets?" And when he had finished prophesying, he went to the high place.

    Also, let's look at God's calling of the Apostle Paul:

    Galatians 1:15-17: But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb and called me through His grace, to reveal His Son in me, that I might preach Him among the Gentiles, I did not immediately confer with flesh and blood, nor did I go up to Jerusalem to those who were apostles before me; but I went to Arabia, and returned again to Damascus.

    That simply says that God separated Paul from his mother's womb and that God called Paul through His grace and revealed Jesus to Paul.

    It says nothing about God predestinating or foreordaining Paul's salvation.

    In fact, Paul had been resisting The Holy Spirit for some time:

    Acts 9:5: Then the Lord said, "I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. It is hard for you to kick against the goads."

  • Deputy Dog
    Deputy Dog

    Undisfellowshipped According to Ephesians 1:5, are we predestined "unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself" by our will (or choice) or by Gods'? Also when you say:

    "that The Father predestined Christians to be adopted through Jesus Christ as sons of God."

    Are you saying that the Father predestines Christians generally or individually? You said:

    "God leads people to repent, but they can still choose to reject God"

    According to Romans 9:16-19 " So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy." are you saying that you can, or can not resist Gods' will? D Dog

  • ellderwho
    ellderwho
    Also, let's look at God's calling of Jeremiah the prophet:

    Jeremiah 1: 4-5: Then the word of the L ORD came to me, saying: " Before I formed you in the womb I knew you; Before you were born I sanctified you; I ordained you a prophet to the nations."

    It does say that before Jeremiah was ever born, God knew him and God ordained him to be a prophet.

    However, that says nothing about God ordaining Jeremiah's eternal salvation.

    So God calls Jeremiah and touches his lips with the words of the LORD sets him apart, tells him He is with him, and your looking for proof of Jeremiahs salvation?

    Saul

    Notice, God had chosen others to act as prophets (such as King Saul), but they turned wicked and were not saved:

    1st Samuel 10:9-13: So it was, when he had turned his back to go from Samuel, that God gave him another heart; and all those signs came to pass that day. When they came there to the hill, there was a group of prophets to meet him; then the Spirit of God came upon him, and he prophesied among them. And it happened, when all who knew him formerly saw that he indeed prophesied among the prophets, that the people said to one another, "What is this that has come upon the son of Kish? Is Saul also among the prophets?" Then a man from there answered and said, "But who is their father?" Therefore it became a proverb: "Is Saul also among the prophets?" And when he had finished prophesying, he went to the high place.

    Because the Holy Spirit in the OT is used to enable people to do certain task that God wants, you turn that into someone rejecting Gods calling see Judges 3:6-10 and 2Chr 36 and Numbers 24

    8 Then the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, so that He sold them into the hands of Cushan-rishathaim king of Mesopotamia and the sons of Israel served Cushan-rishathaim eight years. 9 When the sons of Israel cried to the LORD, the LORD raised up a deliverer for the sons of Israel to deliver them, Othniel the son of Kenaz, Caleb's younger brother. 10 The Spirit of the LORD came upon him, and he judged Israel. When he went out to war, the LORD gave Cushan-rishathaim king of Mesopotamia into his hand, so that he prevailed over Cushan-rishathaim

    Look at 2Chronicles 36

    14 Furthermore, all the officials of the priests and the people were very unfaithful {following} all the abominations of the nations; and they defiled the house of the LORD which He had sanctified in Jerusalem. 15 The LORD, the God of their fathers, sent { word} to them again and again by His messengers, because He had compassion on His people and on His dwelling place; 16 but they {continually} mocked the messengers of God, despised His words and scoffed at His prophets, until the wrath of the LORD arose against His people, until there was no remedy. 17 Therefore He brought up against them the king of the Chaldeans who slew their young men with the sword in the house of their sanctuary, and had no compassion on young man or virgin, old man or infirm; He gave {them} all into his hand. 18 All the articles of the house of God, great and small, and the treasures of the house of the LORD, and the treasures of the king and of his officers, he brought {them} all to Babylon. 19 Then they burned the house of God and broke down the wall of Jerusalem, and burned all its fortified buildings with fire and destroyed all its valuable articles.

    Here in Numbers24 God uses a sorcerer;

    1 When Balaam saw that it pleased the LORD to bless Israel, he did not go as at other times to seek omens but he set his face toward the wilderness. 2 And Balaam lifted up his eyes and saw Israel camping tribe by tribe; and the Spirit of God came upon him.

    Did God save this sorcerer.

    Point is God gets what he wants period!

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