DaCheech,
No problem, if there was one way to reach the JW we would all be doing it.
Triple A
Is It Possible To Reason With A Typical Jehovah's Witness?
by minimus 117 Replies latest jw friends
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JT
here is a good link that provides and interesting viewpoint on why it is so hard to convince folks who believe a certain way despite PROOF, FACTRS AND EVIDENCE
http://www.csicop.org/si/2000-11/beliefs.html
HERE AE SOME thoughts below
Skeptical thinkers must realize that because of the survival value of beliefs, disconfirming evidence will rarely, if ever, be sufficient to change beliefs, even in "otherwise intelligent" people. In order to effectively change beliefs skeptics must attend to their survival value, not just their data-accuracy value. This involves several elements.
First, skeptics must not expect beliefs to change simply as the result of data or assuming that people are stupid because their beliefs don't change. They must avoid becoming critical or demeaning in response to the resilience of beliefs. People are not necessarily idiots just because their beliefs don't yield to new information. Data is always necessary, but it is rarely sufficient.
Second, skeptics must learn to always discuss not just the specific topic addressed by the data, but also the implications that changing the related beliefs will have for the fundamental worldview and belief system of the affected individuals. Unfortunately, addressing belief systems is a much more complicated and daunting task than simply presenting contradictory evidence. Skeptics must discuss the meaning of their data in the face of the brain's need to maintain its belief system in order to maintain a sense of wholeness, consistency, and control in life. Skeptics must become adept at discussing issues of fundamental philosophies and the existential anxiety that is stirred up any time beliefs are challenged. The task is every bit as much philosophical and psychological as it is scientific and data-based.
Third, and perhaps most important, skeptics must always appreciate how hard it is for people to have their beliefs challenged. It is, quite literally, a threat to their brain's sense of survival. It is entirely normal for people to be defensive in such situations. The brain feels it is fighting for its life. It is unfortunate that this can produce behavior that is provocative, hostile, and even vicious, but it is understandable as well.
The lesson for skeptics is to understand that people are generally not intending to be mean, contrary, harsh, or stupid when they are challenged. It's a fight for survival. The only effective way to deal with this type of defensiveness is to de-escalate the fighting rather than inflame it. Becoming sarcastic or demeaning simply gives the other person's defenses a foothold to engage in a tit-for-tat exchange that justifies their feelings of being threatened ("Of course we fight the skeptics-look what uncaring, hostile jerks they are!") rather than a continued focus on the truth.
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JT
The lesson for skeptics is to understand that people are generally not intending to be mean, contrary, harsh, or stupid when they are challenged. It's a fight for survival
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think about it folks when we talk to jw we are telling them that they have WASTED THE LAST 30YRS of their life for NOTHING - now let's be real that is hard for anyone to happily accept- we are literally ripping their "World" apart- regardless of the fact it is a make believe world it is the only one they know and like most jw i know they have invested everthing they have in this "New World"
while this article may not be the only explanation, it does provide one with some interesting insight into how folks think and react when their world threaten
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ellderwho
Onacruise....Buildings are put up brick-by-brick, and come down the same way.
I disagree, If you take 607 away from the Jw everything falls in. The mormons, take away the book of Mormon it falls.
I still believe its case by case.
LOL @ Nathan.
E.
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onacruse
elderwho, I was thinking in terms of person-to-person reasoning. The results may be subtle, and even subliminal, but there seems, in general, to be an inexorable force of awareness working its way through the WTS...shades of the late 20s and late 70s/early 80s.
On the "global" scale of demolishing a belief-system, then, yes indeed, 1914 is the WTS cornerstone...notwithstanding that Jesus is supposed to be that Stone.
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XQsThaiPoes
The watchtower does not need 607 bce this is an exjw misconception and falacy. If this was the case there would be no jws today. As far as taking the book of mormon I am pretty sure the mormons dont need that anymore either.
What many of you dont understand is mordern religion as oppossed to past is built on unprovable claims. So people walk into the door with arm loads of claims that is simply oppion and commentary.
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gumby
The watchtower does not need 607 bce this is an exjw misconception and falacy.
Another famous remark nobody agree's with.
Their entire end of times prophecies depend on this date. Yes....they could lose the date and survive.......but I wouldn't say they don't "need" it.
Gumby
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XQsThaiPoes
THey have no "end of times" prophecies left anymore related to 1914. "what you talking about willis"
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Lympicita
No, it is NOT possible.
When I was trying to leave (my husband was also a JW), when I did next to enforced bible study with him. If I disagreed with him over a something scriputal the volume went up, and he yelled the same thing over and over, untill I gave him the "Oh I get it" response.
The "truth" cost me my husband, my friends and most of my family. Oh yuh, it did set me free.
Kaye
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gumby
THey have no "end of times" prophecies left anymore related to 1914.
Where do you come up with this stuff?
Gumby