Do You Think Bag Searching Violates Your Rights? (page 12)

Darth Yhwh

Kudos to you EvilForce, well said! The problem is that too many Americans are complacent in their daily lives, have never even read or much less though about the constitution and their freedoms, and really give two shakes less of what their government is doing with their liberties.

Thomas Jefferson once said "the tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." I certainly am not an advocate of violence, however sometimes I think about his words and wonder if it isn’t time for a second American revolution, one in which the American conscience is awakened and the populace realizes what it means to have a government for the people, of the people, and by the people. If it takes some blood shed than perhaps it’s worth it.

Robdar

Hey Minimus!

Max Divergent

Max, I have to tell you right now....I enjoyed your comment up until your use of the "N" word!

Fair enough... an ugly, hateful word with the most awful connotations ... but it got and has retained that history despite the Bill of Rights.

My point is a simple one - a Bill of Rights or any constitutional guarentee isn't often the best or only way to think about how to protect the most fundamental of human rights - the right to life (as in 'alive' - not bombed) in freedom and safety – because the most abhorrent abuses still happen, like those brought to mind with that racist word.

Maybe going on the subway with a backpack is either: 1) consent to a 'random' search, or 2) 'probable cause' enough for a quick look in the bag for plastique, an Uzi or other terror weapons if Congress says it is.

Max - of the eternal vigilance is better than slavery to rules class

EvilForce

Max slavery and the oppression of the black race were APPROVED by the supreme court as NOT running afoul of the Bill of Rights ergo the need for the 13th amendment ending slavery.

I'm not sure where you live Max but if you have spent long periods of time in large city needing mass transit you would know you need briefcases, grocery bags, gym bags, back packs etc.. when you use it as your "lifeline" transportation. Having random searches whereby people can refuse but get turned away from the subway, yet head 3 blocks down the street to board the same subway line means that only law abiding people are going to let police search their bags. Talk about rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.

Spend the effort and the time on things that ACTUALLY will work without violating peoples rights. Otherwise Max maybe we ought to take your gun from you since I'm far likelier to get shot by a gun than blown up by a bomber on a subway.

Max Divergent

Approval of slavery is a good example of why a Bill of Rights can't be relied upon to protect our lives and freedoms.

More thought than looking up the 4th, 13th, 9th, 1st, 5th or whichever Amendments, or turning up on a Tuesday every four years, is needed to keep us free either from an enemy who: 1) hates the Western system, and 2) understands us better than we understand them; OR from a rampent government that's quickly getting frighteningly efficient.

Cheers, Max - who hasn't the slightest idea of how to make the subway a less attractive target, but is sure the answer isn't found in the constitution!

EvilForce

If you harden the subway....they go to buses....if you harden buses they go to malls. It's an endless fight that way.

Trampling the rights of citizens is not an acceptable method in my opinion.

JH

We have less and less rights, as terror inches up.

EvilForce

The London subway bombing killed 52 people. In the 23 days since that occured approximately 2,650 people were killed via auto accidents in the USA. Approximately 1,827 gun deaths in the USA.

Using the odds of dying in a terrorist related attack during your lifetime as noted below from the CDC, let's compare them to the odds of dying from a long list of real, everyday dangers.
1 in 88,000 of a terrorist attack
1 in 1,500,000 of a terrorist-caused shopping mall disaster assuming one such incident a week and you shop two hours a week
1 in 55,000,000 in a terrorist-caused plane disaster assuming one such incident a month and you fly once a month ( 1 )

Also from the CDC

1 in 55,928 of death by lightening
1 in 20,605 in your clothes igniting
1 in 10,455 of dying in your bathtub
1 in 10,010 by falling from a ladder or scaffolding
1 in 9,396 due to excessive heat
1 in 8,389 due to excessive cold
1 in 7,972 in a drowning accident
1 in 6,842 in a railway accident.

Using odds of dying in a way that Americans can relate to, let's compare the above numbers to the odds of dying during your lifetime to homicide from various forms of weapons.
1 in 197 of dying in a homicide
1 in 299 of dying in an assault from a firearm
1 in 5,330 of dying in an assault by hanging or strangulation

" Now, the question that every American must ask themselves is this; am I willing to give up my Constitutional freedoms in hopes of avoiding death by lightening, which is 983 times more likely than dying because a terrorists crashes an airplane? Are you willing to live in a Republican/Nazi police state in hopes that you don't die from your clothes catching fire (2669 times more likely) or falling in your bathtub (5261 times more likely)? Are you seriously asking this regime to protect you from being strangled or hanged when the odds of that happening is 10318 times more probable than dying in a terrorist-caused attack? Are you, at your very core, comfortable with the idea of leaving to your children a world in which Republicans/Nazis/fascists control all American's everyday life?" - http://www.anotherperspective.org/advoc530.html

EvilForce

I'm not trying to minimize or make light of the London incident. My point was to illustrate how much greater our chances of dying by other means is and to keep a perspective on "terrorism" before wily nily tossing our constitution into the toilet.

Jeffro

People like to complain. They complain about their rights being taken away if the authorities want to conduct more searches. And if there's a terrorist attack, they complain about the authorities not doing enough to prevent such tragedies. What's it to be, people?
There are many risks in life. To a degree, many risks can be mitigated or minimized by our being cautious and responsible for our actions. We can take reasonable steps to reduce our risks of being struck by lightning, having our clothes catch fire, drowning in the bathtub, falling off a ladder, overheating, freezing to death, drowning or getting hit by a train.
Some things are a little less in our control. Short of avoiding public places, we can reduce our risk of dying in a terrorist attack by not whinging about our rights being taken away when the authorities want to do something that will reduce our chance of being in a lot of pain or dead as a result of an explosive device.

Do You Think Bag Searching Violates Your Rights?

Share this