by Fatfreek 87 Replies latest watchtower child-abuse
six of nine - I agree your comments are spot on.
Gespro - your circumstances sound difficult. I think I'v e read you post similarly some weeks ago about your mother's heavy dependence on you. I think you should say word for word what you said here to your mother. be gentle but firm.
I'm not your husband/boyfriend. You're supposed to give me the tools to have this kind of relationship with my own mate of choice.Can you tell this is an emotional subject for me...I'll stop now
Perhaps mothers do sometimes look for husband/boyfiends in their sons, not necessarily the sexual relationship (although it does happen), but often it is more that they seek parent type comfort. They seek the comfort that they did not receive from their own fathers.
I know that incest, whether it be emotional or physical, does exist between mothers and sons; but seeking comfort in the way we are discussing in this thread does not always mean incest.
Something for all of you to keep in mind: our parents were once children, too. And generally, messed up parents once had messed up parents. Our parents, being raised by messed up parents, brought to the table a messed up view of what constitutes parenting.
Even when a parent, who was raised by messed up parents, has good intentions to be a better parent, they still have poor role models to model their parenting skills after. They may do better than their parents, but still do some mixed up things to their kids.
I wonder if this story hits us differently based upon our differing experiences. Having grown up in an environment free of any sort of sexual inappropriateness, the idea of a mother asking her teenage sons to sleep with her over a limited period of time (to me) may sound like a bad idea--but it is not necessarily sexual abuse. Some who've had this sad thing enter their lives may be extra alert to such a thing happening again. I take into consideration that the boy felt there was some uncomfortable touching. To the extent this is the case, it may indeed have been very inappropriate--and ultimately abuse.
I would like to address the line of thought another poster brought up in responding to the person who said he should just "get over it." I too agree that some can apply a different standard for women and men in this area. On another thread about pedophilia, for instance, one person made the comment that this is something 'some men have a problem with.'
I did considerable research into this subject when chairman of a Judicial Committee hearing the case of a fellow elder who'd be accused by two persons of pedophilia from years before. Some of the information we'd found was that women are responsible for approximately one-third of all pedophilia and statutory rape--although such abuse is reported less by boys than girls. Also a study from 1993 showed that 60% of young male survivors had been molested by at least one female. Part of the trouble is that those who recover the best from such experiences are those that have received counseling very early. Since boys are less likely to report--and parents less likely to report when they find out--boys more often go without the help they need in this area.
I presently live with my daughter who will be 18 this month. In the last few years there have been a few occasions when she and I have slept in the same bed together. It was either when she'd had a bad dream and came in to sleep in my bed (a King Size)--or when staying at a hotel the only room available had one King Size bed. Certainly nothing inappropriate whatsoever occurred--and neither of us had any reason to feel uncomfortable about it. When she was younger, my wife and I both used to explain to her why sleeping in the same bed with her as a matter of routine was a bad idea. I still think it's a bad idea in general. Yet, under very infrequent circumstances that present themselves, I don't feel it should be obsessed over.
If in fact some inappropriate things did occur in the bed with these boys, then their feelings should very definitely be taken seriously. And pooh-poohing it because they are boys is outrageous--and (I might add) part of the problem itself.
And pooh-poohing it because they are boys is outrageous--and (I might add) part of the problem itself.
Saying that's it's possible the boy may have misinterpreted the mother's "touching" is not pooh poohing it. Ever felt uncomfortable when someone hugged you? Many cultures have very simple huts they sleep in and all family member sleep in the same bed or mat, etc. It's the western culture that decided people had to have separate bedrooms from their children. Probably a mixture of affluence and Victorian Christian thinking.
No, I wasn't doing that, Flying. I was responding to the poster who said the boys should "just get over it." I too think it's very possible that such a thing can be misinterpreted.
I too think it's very possible that such a thing can be misinterpreted.
Good, because it's a valid point. And even if the boy misinterpreted his mother's closeness, his feelings of unease shouldn't be pooh poohed, that's true.
Howdy Six-
Still in the saddle here.... DEFINITELY still takin' names... :)
Confession-
I agree with your long post, except for stats re male v. female offenders.
In my experience in civil and criminal law related to sexual abuse, sexual predators are far more likely to be male than female.... The stats aren't even remotely close.
This concurs with the experience of the experts who testify in the cases we litigate.
Not to say a female will not abuse, but far less likely...
Thanks for your comments, stillconcerned. I certainly wish I had all of the original research I'd done. (Somehow in coming out of the organization, I didn't keep track of all of my personal notes.) It's true that people used to believe that the overwhelming majority of all sexual abuse was committed by males--but as more information comes to light--the discovery that it is so underreported by and on behalf of male children--particularly when a female initiator (predator) is involved--contributes to the more recent concern: that female predators are far more common than previously thought.
(As reported by University of Connecticut Health Center, from Bristol Press)
"News of men preying on girls is more common than cases of women molesting boys.
Trestman said psychologists had assumed that girls were the most frequent victims. But the Imre and other cases suggests that victimization of boys by women may be more prevalent, yet under-reported, he said."
During the time I was involved in this Judicial Committee, I was also creating a video presentation for a local home for abused children. I spent considerable time with the directors of this home, and a lot of information was covered. In meeting the children there I was surprised to find that the great majority of them were male. I commented on this to the primary director of the home, a female. (This was a wonderful, warm, older woman with huge, kind eyes. She'd dedicated so much of her life to helping these children. I remember--as a JW at the time--feeling how much God must have appreciated a person such as this. What makes it even more sad is that she was suffering from cancer at the time and going through chemo. Very weak.) She told me that, while more sexual abuse is directed at girls--much more abuse of all other kinds is directed at boys, and that in her many years at the home there were always more boys there than girls. For some reason, in our conversation, she made the comment...
"And we're finding out that a lot more of the sexual abuse is coming from women than we used to think."
Why she thought to bring this up, I don't know, but it was obviously something she'd been convinced was a problem. She was the one who told me how boys in general have a harder time coming forward about something like this. The social pressure is that boys are supposed to like attention from females. Confessing that it is disturbing to them is difficult. Furthermore boys receive all the social cues that males are supposed to be strong and dominant. Being willing to admit that a female took charge over him is also difficult--and just another reason why it isn't reported by so many of them.
She talked at length about this--far longer and with far more candor than I'd have imagined. I remember her saying how women are smarter than men about the way they go about it. An adult man with an exposed, erect penis is obviously initiating something sexual. As she said this, her eyes became slits. She said something to the effect of...
"But a woman? Ohhh no. She can just say, 'Come here, honey, why don't you just let me rub you a little? There doesn't that feel good? Good! Now you can rub me too.' "
The point is there is less hard evidence (pardon the pun) that she is being sexual. It is easier to believe later--and convince others--that it was just harmless or misunderstood.
In reading more about this, another source cited the fact that a certain amount of sexual abuse reported by girls ends up being false. I hate to even print something like this here; I don't EVER want to be like some of the elders we've heard of who, in Judicial Committees, act like they don't believe the young person--and who try to blame it on them. The unfounded guilt associated with these crimes is one of the biggest problems for some children--and contributing to it is evil. Of course, at the same time it's horrible for someone to accuse someone of sexual abuse of any kind when it isn't true, and we know that a percentage of it (perhaps small) does in fact turn out to be false.
Anyway, I certainly hope these boys DID in fact misinterpret what happened with their mother. Either way it does demonstrate why it's probably a bad idea to do this.
The act of sharing a bed with your child is not, in an of itself, a bad thing. There are numerous, perfectly valid reasons that children end up in bed with their parents. I am a big believer that appropriate, affectionate contact with children is a wonderful way to assure your children that they are loved and cherished. I am also, however, a big believer that there are some behaviors which are limited to your partner and yourself, and it is not the business or responsiblity of a child to take over for an absent parent or spouse when their mother or father needs comfort.
The mother in this situation, by the original poster's description, was citing loneliness and emotional vulnerability as the reasons she wanted her teenage sons to alternate sleeping with her. In effect, she asked them to substitute for the husband who no longer shared her bed, so that she would not have to sleep alone. This is not a mother who sought extra hugs and kisses from her children in appropriate daily settings, but a lonely woman who somehow forgot that her own need for adult, peer physical contact was not something her children should have had to provide for her. The actions of this parent, when examined for their intent, are creepy. Period.
I don't believe anyone should ignore that little voice in their head that says 'something just isn't right about this'. The son, all these years later, is still troubled by the contact with his mother in that situation, and that alone is enough for me to acknowledge that--whether intended or not--the mother's actions were at the very least questionable.
If a divorced dad cited vulnerability and loneliness at bedtime and insisted that his 14 and 16 year old daughters take turns sleeping with him while he spooned them, you can bet your bippy that the girls confession of feeling very uncomfortable about what took place would likely get a much more sympathetic response than "get over it".
I did NOT say because they were "boys" they should get over it, rather that nothing sexual happened !
She didnt sexually abuse them, they might have felt uncomfortable and that was wrong, but it was the father that was angry and I just felt that they may have been relaying a story that happened when HE had left. If they had told him when it had happened, he could of spoken to the mother telling her he thought it was inapropriate, but this was an instance that happened years ago. If they are still that upset they should go and talk to their mother about it.
I am not unsympathetic to anyone whos been abused, and this is my point I dont think they were, but thats my opinion, on a story told fourth hand, as I wasnt there !!!!!!!!
