Posts by Markfromcali

15

How can jws be so stone hearted?

by kls in

i am sure the jws do moniter these and other places, but if they are so human and they read all the heart breaking stories on the sites they pry in , how can they live with what they have done to people,i mean just us here get choked up reading what people are and did go through.

jws always say they are human they make mistakes, then how can they not have human emotions?

sorry if i am just rambling , but i can't understand how they can be just stone but say they are human.

Markfromcali

The answer to this question is actually right next to the title in the forum category column - beliefs.

While one can argue how reasonable (or unreasonable) the JW doctrines are, underneath it all is how thought driven the religion is, to the exclusion of the heart. This is why some people will note how intellectual the Witnesses are - not that they are particularly smart or hold views that reflect such, but it's just a matter of what the whole thing is running on, or how it functions.

So in a sense it is like the heart waking up when it happens, and when you get right down to it it's not separate from the mind. So sometimes people will start all this research and such, but the thing that prompted them to do so may not have been intellectual in nature. While some people just have an intellectual temperament, this pattern of imbalance still exists when that happens. That's why sometimes the emotional dimension and beyond that the whole human dimension remains unresolved in spite of the person being very intelligent and very well informed. The Witnesses like to say the Watchtower and Awake teaches you how to live, but if anything it just teaches you how to live from your mind. How reasonable your thinking is is not even relevant here, it is just that kind of imbalanced conditioning where one is in a lower heirarchical relationship with the mind, which only means separation within yourself.

So I have to say the JW mindset is based on thoughts rather than a living intelligence, or the intelligence of actually living, which is not meant as a derogatory remark - it is just a matter of unconsciously following orders. It actually reminds me of where the bible says "forgive them, they know not what they do."

22

I think I need help with this..

by ScoobySnax in

jw
friends

this whole jw thing is doing my head in.

this universal issue, this good and bad stuff, right and wrong.. i don't think i'll ever make my mind up which way to jump, i keep trying to rationalise in my mind where i am and where i'm going.

its like being stuck constantly in a rut.

Markfromcali

I can't stop thinking as a JW does, its part of me. Yet I can't live as one either. They're so meshed together, although truth be know I don't think I'll ever be ready to lose that part of me either. I'm amazed at how some of you have. I haven't got a lot of time for those that show so much hate and contempt for it, (because I can't imagine feeling that way and it "feels" like an attack on me) yet equally I'm impressed at those who respond fairly to whatever crap I've posted before, they have patience and they seem to have done it, to have moved on totally and be content.

What about just being as you are, not knowing where to go? That *seems* like the last place you want to be, but there's no denying that's where you are now. But you actually hinted at the answer yourself - thinking a certain way is one thing, living it is another. I didn't even know anything when I walked away, but there was the inherent sense that I couldn't do it anymore, I couldn't live it because it was no way to live. That's all that's needed in the beginning, try living your life instead of thinking it for a change - you get the sense of what I'm saying?

I hear you on the hate and contempt, at this point I don't have any agenda one way or the other. Now if it should come up with a Witness I'm not gonna avoid the issue, I just tell it like I see it.

Then I start to think what has stumbled me, I think I know what it was and is, and then I get angry about that too, which equally is still a part of me....being gay. I get annoyed that I am like that, so much so that I punched a wall the other night. Yeah I know really intelligent. But its just frustration. Oh I'm rambling.

I've had that kinda anger, punched a few holes myself back in the day. Welcome to the human race.

25

Will man evolve a beyound any need for religion???

by frankiespeakin in

since evolution has caused our species to have bigger and better brains as time went on,,will we eventually evolve beyound any need for religion??

?

Markfromcali

Put it another way - is there a need to believe it will or will not happen? That will tell you if the religious consciousness is still there.

Some are quite optimistic regarding the potential, but often times this just turns into a subtler form of religious thinking among the "spiritual but not religious" crowd. One thing we can say, it seems pretty obvious that it is a minority at this point. A lot people who do not buy into any formal religion has the same mindset, it doesn't even matter if the content is non-religious in nature. One can build prisons with all kinds of thoughts and emotions.

9

I've discovered something..........

by desib77 in

jw
friends

about myself...... i think i'm a very judgemental person and that really bothers me.

it's only in regard to religon though..... for example, yesterday, after my husband and i had watched the passion, i was all pumped up about religon, so thankful that jesus had died for me and and ready to start trying to better myself.

that evening my husband got really ticked off at someone who had pulled out in front of us almost causing an accident and cussed them out.

Markfromcali

I have to agree with Flowers that not caring in the sense of not hanging on to any opinions is the way to go.

Poppers said:

Being judgemental is not something that a person "is", but rather is a "point of view" that flows through the identity structure one has constructed for oneself .. It's the identity structure (what I call ego) that keeps people in separation from one another.

I would simply say it is identification with structure or form, which is a slightly different thought from identity structure - as the actual structure isn't as important as whether you identify with it. In this case thought forms that creates the phenomenon of ego, since it doesn't really exist as an entity - it's just this dynamic, an activity.

You have asked an important question - how to overcome it. And you have found the answer, though you may not realize it yet. The answer is basically very simple: just become alert to the arising of judgement of ANY kind.

But is judgement (or intolerance even) bad, something you need to get rid of? What is there to say it is something that needs to be overcome except another judgement? See it becomes very subtle doesn't it, it's tricky to frame this stuff with ideas. It should be pointed out that what judgement is is essentially unconscious, simplistic information processing. You've got your little standard of judgement, and then you compare something you see with it and basically you just have either approval (if it fits) or disapproval - of course meanwhile reality is as it is regardless of what you think of it. Funny it should be the other way around - ones standard of truth should really be based on that, why should reality conform to how you think? It may sound funny, but by 'not caring' I simply mean not taking it seriously. Even if it's not intended in this way, when a statement such as being aware of judgement or thoughts, breath or anything comes across as a technique, something to do, then you're stuck again. It's just one thought leading to another, even if it is a very subtle state of consciousness. Of course when you're there with someone in real time you can just ask a very simple and open question to actually inquire, that's kind of hard to do in a post since it would probably not last very long if anything. But remember that "don't know mind", it's not knowing that frees you from identification with thoughts, having different thoughts just makes you hooked to other, perhaps more sublime thoughts. For those who don't know what that means, it just means don't pretend you know when you don't. There's a difference between just thinking a certain way and knowing.

39

Do You Realize How Much Being a Witness Has Hindered You?

by minimus in

jw
friends

the truth is------- we have lost out on soooooo much, simply because we were witnesses.

it might b like almost starting all over again, for some of us.

what hits you as to what you could've had or have outrightly lost??

Markfromcali

The truth is------- we have lost out on soooooo much, simply because we were Witnesses. It might b like almost starting all over again, for some of us. What hits you as to what you could've had or have outrightly lost???

Lost out on things that is the average social norm, yes. You can list a lot of what could have beens. What hits me is that I've lost the mental imprisonment.

24

Things that make you happy..

by Stefanie in

jw
friends

Markfromcali

Good humor.

24

Things that make you happy..

by Stefanie in

jw
friends

Markfromcali

Seeing people with free minds and hearts, living life to the fullest.

18

Interesting read, very controversial

by New Castles in

jw
friends

read something today, that i thought was very interesting.

it screams in the face of thousands of years of christian belief.

it expresses the authors belief that jesus's sacrifice was in vain.. "if i owe a person money, and cannot pay him, and he threatens to put me in prison, another person can take the debt upon himself, and pay it for me.

Markfromcali

Frankly justice is relatively primative in the human consciousness (sort of like beliefs ) - which does not mean it is not necessary of course. But to me the death of Jesus and others just basically brings altruism into the collective consciousness.

Mark (used to be Intro, if anyone is wondering)

11

My bizarre last few days...

by CeriseRose in

so i basically spent last week hibernating with my english lit books and studying.

i had 3 essays to finish (one left and i'm slacking horridly on it) and my final exam last saturday (i think i did reallly well!

yay!).

Markfromcali

I feel like I'm not done. Like I need to get everyone else out of this cult too. But I really don't know how to proceed. It's like the huge revelation that was the 'truth' when I learned it has turned into a huge revelation that it's a cult. Part of me is exhausted at the thought of fighting for it. Another part of me knows it has to be done.
I just don't know how to start or what 'tactic' to use first. Thoughts?

Your desire to get everyone out comes from compassion, but don't become lost in a kind of project mindset. It would be inefficient if nothing else to approach this as a fight or a struggle, but rather just be aware of opportunities that might arise.

The thing is even if you do get people to leave based on some set of information or a certain approach, this is mostly limited to the intellect and is not exactly a conscious process. What I mean by that is people can see through specific beliefs, but it's another matter altogether to see through the process of believing - that is basically just buying what someone else tells you. You might think that's something that's pretty simple, but that's essentially what's going on. So as far as that goes it is far more useful to pose questions (but not as a tactic, just naturally as it arises spontaneously) which might even be unanswered, because at this level we're not dealing with information processing, which will only take you from one thought to another, but one starts becoming aware of the behavior of the mind. But ideally a healthy process would also include the emotions of course, and one would be able to put it all in perspective instead of just being broken hearted at having arrived at an unpleasant realization. When you can come to understand through an emotionally charged issue, then the intellectual part naturally follows.

When you get right down to it, you also have to consider whether they really want to know the truth about the Truth. Some people just want that security blanket, others are in it for social reasons. Not everyone really wants the truth.

12

What is the "Sacred Secret"?

by goddess_baal in

it's been about four years since i attended the kh, and i'm amazed to realize just how many of the doctrines i have forgotten.. i don't have the literature at my disposal anymore (or maybe i'm just too lazy), and the phrase "sacred secret" just popped into my head yesterday.

wasn't it one of the j-dub teachings of some sort?

(i remember asking my mom when i was a little girl, and i seems to me that she had trouble explaining it herself.).

Markfromcali

Try this on for size: The secret is that you are sacred.

We don't think along these lines do we? The typical religious sheep mentality is kind of like Wayne and Garth in the movie Wayne's World bowing down saying "We're not worthy! We're not worthy! We're dumb, we suck..." Somehow we buy into this idea that you need these so called experts when it comes to spirituality, and of course that's what religion is all about.

So here's one that will speak to the sci-fi geeks out there, but the point is clear enough even if you're not into sci-fi: In one of the Star Trek movies, they encounter this entity which they believe is God, and all the sudden captain Kirk inquires: "What does God need with a starship?" So I say what does God need with an organization, a religion, or anything? Or what do you need to be spiritual/know God or whatever?

But if we want to just analyze information, there's already some replies for that.