I don't have any judgements about it, but it does seem it's more for altered states of consciousness, an experience, than consciousness itself. I've never really felt the need to try any of it, as I'm not interested in particular states. I sometimes find myself in different states, but since I don't use any chemicals to induce it you can't attribute the experience to any exogenous chemicals as some are prone to do in a dismissive way. To me it's pretty simple, there's always consciousness regardless of the state it's in, so theres always 'access' to it. In fact I would say the reality is more immediate than even having access, its just always here.
Markfromcali
JoinedPosts by Markfromcali
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36
Entheogens can they be good or bad?
by frankiespeakin inhere a cut link and paste:.
the word "entheogen" literally means "generating the divine within".
in its strictest sense the term refers to a psychoactive plant or substance that occasions enlightening spiritual or mystical experience, within the parameters of a cult, in the original sense of cultus.
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18
Why do they still have an effect on me???????
by BLISSISIGNORANCE ini was at work today and i noticed a tradesman walking through the building wearing a t-shirt with a company name on it.
i knew it was a dub's trade name and felt sick in the stomach.
i didn't recognize the man wearing the shirt and thought maybe the business had been sold to someone else.. at lunch time i sat near a door and saw the boss of the company.............yes, it was the dub!!!!!!!!!!!!!.
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Markfromcali
Well things like this still might touch you, but this in itself doesn't mean it still has a hold on you. If you care, of course it's going to have that effect - it even touches people who were never JWs because they do care. Some of it might still be identification with the JW mindset such as fear of elders and whatnot, but it's good to distinguish between the two because while one is a remnant of the JW life, the other is just natural caring.
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6
Clarity
by onacruse inhave you found it?.
has it found you?.
ambivalence is the worst cancer, a cancer of the heart and soul and mind.. craig
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Markfromcali
Hi Craig,
Clarity is personal; nothing more, nothing less, nothing other.
Are you sure? The clarity can be about the personal, but is it personal in nature?
As we visit that sacrosanct private place, in the most hidden spots of our psyche, those "nerve endings" that we hesitate to expose to even our dearest friends, our brothers, sisters, wives, husbands...do we find clarity?
That goes right along with the first part. The question we might ask is what 'visits' that place? If one part of the psyche just looks at another part, that can hardly be clarity - it would just be chasing your own tail in a sense.
Self-honesty results, inevitably, in clarity.
And that honesty would imply understanding yourself, knowing yourself. Digging up the hidden stuff doesn't necessarily mean you understand, it's just stuff. While such things may be very old and have a significant influence in life, it is acquired. What was there before any of it was acquired? Is that personal? What I am suggesting is going beneath the surface in a sense. As far as I'm concerned, the stuff of the psyche is really a matter of breadth, even if its something that may be hidden. I'm saying real clarity is more a matter of depth. See if it isn't acquired, then in order to look at that it means we would drop all that we have acquired. When you clear away the clutter of information, you will find clarity.
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23
Is your 'reality' just thought?
by Markfromcali inmost of the time there seems to be talk that essentially consists of whether this thought is better, is more logical or makes more sense - but what about the nature of it being just thought?
in one way this may seem obvious or boring so as to be easily dismissed, but for example when it comes to religious beliefs things can get really screwed up, even if you think your particular brand is better.
(however, this would not be limited to religion) it would be like someone who thinks everything on tv is real, and being disinterested in that fact in favor of being entertained by the various stories portrayed in all the shows.. consider the follow quote from thought as a system by david bohm.
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Markfromcali
Hi Guest,
What I'm saying is thought is just a part of reality, (after all, they exist) but there is more to the world than just the thoughts we have. What seems to happen is people tend to focus on thoughts when it is just a small part of existence, and in that way it's limited if nothing else.
I would say in your work walking the beams is clearly something you can really do, but if you focus on fearful thoughts you lose perspective of that.
edited to add: so in that way I would say you don't even really need to focus on confidence, but just the job at hand. If you've been doing it so long that kind of emotional motivation is really just extra, you know what I mean? You can be careful without having strong feelings about it - it's natural to, most people would - but I'm just saying it can be done without it being there.
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23
Is your 'reality' just thought?
by Markfromcali inmost of the time there seems to be talk that essentially consists of whether this thought is better, is more logical or makes more sense - but what about the nature of it being just thought?
in one way this may seem obvious or boring so as to be easily dismissed, but for example when it comes to religious beliefs things can get really screwed up, even if you think your particular brand is better.
(however, this would not be limited to religion) it would be like someone who thinks everything on tv is real, and being disinterested in that fact in favor of being entertained by the various stories portrayed in all the shows.. consider the follow quote from thought as a system by david bohm.
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Markfromcali
No SS, what I'm saying is more along the lines of distinguishing what's what. People are less likely to be under mind/thought control if they realize their beliefs are just beliefs. The danger I think is when you don't realize what you hold as a belief is only a thought, and start taking it as given, as reality itself.
In this book the author makes the point that thought is only a small part of reality, yet it seems to be all pervasive, which can make it hard to distinguish from the rest of reality. Furthermore, we all know how people tend to try to interpret reality through their way of thinking. While this may seem reasonable to the person there is inevitably an incoherence between their thought system and reality at large, not to mention there is bound to be external influence outside the individual that contributes to the particular way of thinking. If people around you has thought fused with the rest of reality, that influence in itself is enough to distort your view of reality - regardless of the specific content. You are now in Thoughtland.
There's more to it and I'm still in the middle of reading it, but the point I wanted to make is really not much more than that. Frankly it's not really a new earth-shattering idea, but perhaps we can call it a reality check. I think a useful question would be can you distinguish the direct experience of how things are from the version that includes your interpretation of it? If not, knowing that you have beliefs and they are only beliefs doesn't even do you a lot of good, you are clearly stuck.
See talking about what to believe is really missing the point when you don't even see the behavior of believing itself, how your experience of life is constantly colored by thought and frankly distorted. And eventually reality will win out. You may not ever realize this, if that's the case you better hope you become the personification of ignorance is bliss - because you will suffer if you sense there is an incoherence between your reality and the real one. 'Believers,' beware.
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23
Is your 'reality' just thought?
by Markfromcali inmost of the time there seems to be talk that essentially consists of whether this thought is better, is more logical or makes more sense - but what about the nature of it being just thought?
in one way this may seem obvious or boring so as to be easily dismissed, but for example when it comes to religious beliefs things can get really screwed up, even if you think your particular brand is better.
(however, this would not be limited to religion) it would be like someone who thinks everything on tv is real, and being disinterested in that fact in favor of being entertained by the various stories portrayed in all the shows.. consider the follow quote from thought as a system by david bohm.
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Markfromcali
Not yet O, thanks for the info!
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23
Is your 'reality' just thought?
by Markfromcali inmost of the time there seems to be talk that essentially consists of whether this thought is better, is more logical or makes more sense - but what about the nature of it being just thought?
in one way this may seem obvious or boring so as to be easily dismissed, but for example when it comes to religious beliefs things can get really screwed up, even if you think your particular brand is better.
(however, this would not be limited to religion) it would be like someone who thinks everything on tv is real, and being disinterested in that fact in favor of being entertained by the various stories portrayed in all the shows.. consider the follow quote from thought as a system by david bohm.
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Markfromcali
How about it? Most of the time there seems to be talk that essentially consists of whether this thought is better, is more logical or makes more sense - but what about the nature of it being just thought? In one way this may seem obvious or boring so as to be easily dismissed, but for example when it comes to religious beliefs things can get really screwed up, even if you think your particular brand is better. (however, this would not be limited to religion) It would be like someone who thinks everything on TV is real, and being disinterested in that fact in favor of being entertained by the various stories portrayed in all the shows.
Consider the follow quote from Thought as a System by David Bohm. It's important to note that when he speaks of thought as a system, he does not mean the individual mind - but rather nothing less than thought as a totality, collectively and so forth:
Q: If all I've ever known in my whole life lies within the system, then any notion of there being anything outside of that is only a notion of the system. And I can't have any idea what that would mean.
Bohm: We don't know what it means, but we have to entertain the idea. I think we have to be careful not to paint outselves into a corner here - to say that everything is in the system and there is no way out of it.
Q: I'm just saying I might get the notion that I could visualize something which was outside.
Bohm: That would still be inside. That becomes the most dangerous source of confusion, because then you say 'that's outside, it's all right'. In such a way thought produces something which seems to be outside, and it doesn't notice that it is doing so. That's one of the basic mistakes. Thought produces something and says, 'I didn't produce it. It's really there.'
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10
Theraputic threads,,that you post to
by frankiespeakin ini 've noticed over the past few months an increase in these type of threads.
it seems,,that even in somewhat argumentative threads,,were people have different perspectives, and they "voice(?
)" them,, that these seem to promote more thinking on those that respond afterwards.. this type of open, frank, conversation must have tremendeous healing power,,not to mention the sneaky,,unarming,,deprograming effect on our still loyal to the org.
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Markfromcali
To me what is therapeutic is when the truth is spoken - and by this I don't necessarily mean the person even knows what the hell they're talking about, but if they really believe something that's a truthful expression of what they think. Its refreshing to have that kind of honesty.
Of course, the nice thing about having a dialogue is that someone may point out something you were not aware of before, and if you are interested in the truth you will appreciate that, even if you think it makes you look bad. Frankly I think when we deny the truth on any level, that's when you'll have some kind of mental dis-ease - it's really a simple principle. If you're honest with yourself, finding that truth will be a relief, like a load taken off your shoulder. There may be other intense emotions over having been in falsehood all this time, but I'm sure atleast some have experienced that relief from being in confusion.
Frankly it's a matter of integrity. It's one thing to believe a lie, it's another thing to live it. Often the relief comes when you see the truth about how you're living a lie, and you can finally relax and stop tearing yourself apart over a way of thinking.
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Markfromcali
As usual, I have to just point out that spirituality is not necessarily about beliefs at all, regardless what it is that you happen to believe in. Consider this quote:
Fundamentally it is not a thing--you don't need to know or understand it, you don't need to affirm or deny it. Just cut off dualism; cut off the supposition "it exists" and the supposition "it does not exist." Cut off the supposition "it is nonexistent" and the supposition "it is not nonexistent." When traces do not appear on either side, then neither lack nor sufficiency, neither profane nor holy, not light or dark. This is not having knowledge, yet not lacking knowledge, not bondage, not liberation. It is not any name or category at all.
As it is said, "Reality has no comparison, because there is nothing to which it may be likened; the body or reality is not constructed and does not fall within the scope of any classification."
Simply put, belief is just a mind game. Reality is much more than your beliefs about it.
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13
Has your prayer life changed?
by poppers ini am wondering if or how your method of prayer has changed?
this question is for everyone, including never-been dubs (which i am).
what does prayer mean to you, not what others have told you it means.
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Markfromcali
Hi Poppers,
I've dropped formal methods of prayer, not for any reason, but spirit isn't about form. I don't see any problems with people who want to do that, but I just don't see any reason to do this song and dance when spirit to spirit is direct. I seem to recall a scripture from the JW days saying something to the effect of the spirit makes supplication with groanings unuttered, too. But of course, right when you say something like that people have a tendancy to process that in the mind, whereas that really gets you farther away from it.
By the way, since you were never a JW what brought you to this board?