It was pretty cool to see the large orange thing (the name escapes my mind) drift off the space shuttle in space. I woke up to the start of the launch on the radio and then I tuned into CNN and watched the whole thing. Pretty cool.
the_classicist
JoinedPosts by the_classicist
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30
We Have Lift Off
by Carol ini've been sitting here reading the posts and just watched the shuttle return to flight!
as usual an amazing sight!
does anyone else find this as interesting as we do in florida?
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I got an invite to take a tour of the new Mormon temple
by I quit! inthis is the only time a non-mormon can get to see the inside of one of them.
once they are consecrated (i think that is what they call it) you can't get in unless you are a mormon wearring the special underwear and other requirements.
even mormons don't get in there very often.
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the_classicist
Take some pics and post 'em here, eh. It would be interesting and I'm sure it would be allowed as they let the media do it with video cameras before it is consecrated.
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JW baptism ............is it valid
by vitty inif you still believe in god or go to church.
do you feel your baptisim as a jw is still valid or have you been baptized again.
i stopped going to meetings over a year ago and am working stuff out in my mind.
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the_classicist
Baptism is not a legal contract as the JWs propose, but a sacrament. It must be done with water (matter), "In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit" (form), and with the right intent (to forgive sins, and enter the baptized person into the communion of Saints).
Since both form and intent are lacking, the JW baptism is invalid.
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Early Christian Worship
by the_classicist ini think ~150 a.d. is early enough for debunking any wt position: .
"and this food is called among us eukaristia [the eucharist], of which no one is allowed to partake but the man who believes that the things which we teach are true, and who has been washed with the washing that is for the remission of sins, and unto regeneration, and who is so living as christ has enjoined.
for not as common bread and common drink do we receive these; but in like manner as jesus christ our saviour, having been made flesh by the word of god, had both flesh and blood for our salvation, so likewise have we been taught that the food which is blessed by the prayer of his word, and from which our blood and flesh by transmutation are nourished, is the flesh and blood of that jesus who was made flesh.
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the_classicist
(derived from Mithraism, focusing on the partaking of the dying-rising god)
The scholarship I've seen, besides the polemical work the Pagan Origins of Christianity, says thus (Mithraism and Christianity: How are They Related? by Donald Morse; Journal of Religion & Psychical Research 1999) :
The Mithraist sacramental sacramental communion of bread and wine and the Eucharistic meal are most likely derived from the Mithra and the sun god feasting together. They apparently ate bread, wine and meat after Mithra had sacrificed the bull (Duchesne-Guillemin, 1967). The Mithraic inscription show before, "He who will eat not of my body, nor drink of my blood so that he may be one with me and I with him, shall not be saved" is quite similar to the Catholic statement from Vatican II, " ...in the Eucharist we become partakers in the body and blood of God's only Son... (and) the partaking of the body and blood of Christ has no less effect than to change us into what we have received" (Tarkowski, 1996). The two quotations are uncannily similar and make one think that perhaps the Christian concept had been derived from Mithraism. Nevertheless, the eating of bread (unlevened type, matzah) and wine is apparently derived from the Jewish Passover, which is undoubtedly the Passover Seder that has been glorified as "The Last Supper." Be that as it may, it must be emphasized that the Christian leaders of the first century A.D. were so upset about the similarities of baptism and Eucharist service between Mithraism and Christianity that they judged them undoubtedly the work of Satan, who had them deliberately precede Christianity (Gnoli, 1987 Mithraic Miracles, 1998).
Now in the above quotation, Leolaia unfortunately falls into a common scholarly fallacy. She represents the link between Mithraism and Christianity with regards to the Eucharist as a fact of the derivation of one from the other. It is not fact, it is simply a hypothesis which should be shown as such. It is similar to the mistake that Cumont makes in his study of Mithraism where he assumes that Mithraism develops fully from Iranian religion by using comparisons, but as Gordon correctly points out that we must reject " any theory which assumes that it is valid to look at Iranian religion... in order to explain the significance and function of symbols in the Western mystery religion of Mithras" (1975, 225 Ulansey 1987, 106).
The Didache sacrifice was of a sacrifice of praise, hence the need to keep the mouth clean to prevent the sacrifice from becoming tainted.
As I wrote in my interpretation of the text, it could refer to either worship as sacrifice or eucharist as sacrifice (I probably should have been less nuanced); a case can be made for either, I would think. -
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When Did GOD Last 'Talk' To Us?
by Legolas inok i got a question for everyone....when was the last time god had dealings with mankind either through dreams or prophets etc... before jesus came?
and how long before that etc...?
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the_classicist
Revelation ended with the death of the last Apostle.
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Who is the Leader of the JW's now?
by Ticker inim just curious as i dont know.
it was henchel (forgive the spelling if incorrect) wasn't it?
didn't he pass away?
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the_classicist
The Man Behind the Curtain of course!
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The Atheist's Book of Bible Stories - Ch. 21 - Pascal Got It Wrong
by RunningMan inpascal got it wrong
what if youre wrong?
one of my loyal readers (ok, my only reader) recently posed this question to me.
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the_classicist
substituting “Allah” for God. It works equally well.
"Allah" is Arabic for "God," Muslims just don't translate it I guess as they view it as an actual name. But Christians, who were in the Middle East before Mohammed, used "Allah" as their word for God.
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What is YOUR middle name?
by Sunspot injust seeing the "quirkiest quirks" thread, i decided to ask this!
mine is "merriam" somewhere from the "merriam-webster" line so i've been told!.
annie
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the_classicist
Andrew. As in.... Andrew!
Actually, it derives from the Greek adjective "Andreos," which idiomatic for "Brave," but literally "Manly."
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Early Christian Worship
by the_classicist ini think ~150 a.d. is early enough for debunking any wt position: .
"and this food is called among us eukaristia [the eucharist], of which no one is allowed to partake but the man who believes that the things which we teach are true, and who has been washed with the washing that is for the remission of sins, and unto regeneration, and who is so living as christ has enjoined.
for not as common bread and common drink do we receive these; but in like manner as jesus christ our saviour, having been made flesh by the word of god, had both flesh and blood for our salvation, so likewise have we been taught that the food which is blessed by the prayer of his word, and from which our blood and flesh by transmutation are nourished, is the flesh and blood of that jesus who was made flesh.
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the_classicist
Ok, first if i said (I may have)that the eucharist meal was a creation of Paul i misspoke. The Eucharist meal reflects a sabbatical Seder meal practiced by Pharisaic Jews. It appears that the Didache demonstrates the early christian adoption of these meals of thanksgiving. Notably in the Didache form there is no mention that Jesus shared a last meal or initiated a sacrement to be repeated nor any mention of sacrificial ransoms or covenants. It was a meal to celebrate the blessings and teachings of Jesus. Sometimes the silence is deafening.
Of course, the Eucharist reflects the seder meal. The seder meal was a part of the home Passover service! The Passover and the Eucharist are link as the Passover sacrificial meal is the prefigurement of the Eucharist sacrificial meal as was the sacrifice of bread and wine done by Melchizedek, for as the Psalmist was quoted by St. Paul: "You are a priest forever after the order of Melchizedek" (Ps. 110:4). A similarity in prayer or worship is made manifest because Christians received their liturgical traditions, at the start, from the Jews.
And the Didache does mention the sacrificial nature of this Sunday worship/meal: "On the Lord's own day, when you gather together, break bread and give thanks [Or: celebrate the Eucharist] after you have confessed your unlawful deeds, that your sacrifice may be pure. Let no one quarreling with his neighbor join you until they are reconciled, that your sacrifice may not be defilied. For this is the sacrifice mentioned by the Lord: "In every place and time, bring me a pure sacrifice. For I am a great King, says the Lord, and my name is considered marvelous among the Gentiles"" (Didache 14).
Also a eucharist appears to have existed in Ur Mark that was later slightly modified to harmonize with Corinthians. Matt simply expanded a few things and Luke (using an early form of Mark) likewise has a meal but was later interpolated using language of Corinthians. So to say that the eucharist (as a meal) was inserted into the texts is not correct.
How does it appear to be slightly modified to harmonize with Corinthians? (curious)
There is a pretty horrible fallacy in modern scholarship that similarity equals a link. This is not always so, but among some Biblical scholars, I have seen magnificently horrible leaps in logic just to "show" said links.
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What do YOU perceive the gospel to be?
by LouBelle ini read greendawns' thread on 'would accepting the gospel make the world a better place'.
and from there some debated on the belief / existance / non belief / non existance of god?
so my question to you is simply - what is the gospel to you?
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the_classicist
The Gospel:
I believe in God, the Father Almighty, Creator of heaven and earth;
And in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord;
He was conceived by the Holy Spirit and born of the Virgin Mary;
He suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died and was buried;
He descended to the dead.
On the third day He rose again, ascended into heaven, and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Holy Catholic Church, the Communion of Saints, the forgiveness of sins,
The resurrection of the body, and the life everlasting.