Do I believe in the Bible? I believe it exists. :) I believe it has some good advice in it, if you are capable of reading selectively. I believe you could rightly construct a worldview around it, as long as you understand and acknowledge that it is your own gig, and not something handed to you by the Almighty. I wouldn't do that myself, though. The Bible was written by and for men with no evidence of divine inspiration.
Do I believe in God? The question is poorly worded. Coming immediately after "do you believe in the Bible" it makes one think of the God of the Bible. I believe I already answered that question in the first paragraph. Could an intelligent entity or entities have set up the natural processes that let to the current state of the Earth and mankind? Sure. The Universe, even? Sure. It's impossible to rule that out, and it's even plausible. But there is no evidence for it, so believing it is a matter of choice. Either way, if that entity or those entities exist, they don't seem to want anything further from us than we're already giving. Therefore their existence is moot, a fun philosophical concept to puzzle on and thresh out, but not anything that particularly matters.
Is is possible that Jehovah exists, and he set up the entire universe in such a way so as to deliberately deceive people about its origin and his existence? To make scientists believe in evolution? To make lots of people doubt his very existence? To trump up a whole fake fossil record and to instantly propagate light out across the universe in such a way that it looks like it's existed for billions of years? Of course it's possible. But if that's the case, then that guy's an asshole and I don't want to have anything to do with him.
under_believer
JoinedPosts by under_believer
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65
POLL: Do You Believe In The Bible or God At All???
by minimus inat this point in your life, do you believe in god or any parts of the bible as being god's word???.
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under_believer
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The Second Emergent Type of "Faders"
by metatron ini was having an interesting conversation with another witness who's nearly faded away.
he made an interesting point that corrected me and.
touched my heart.. i wondered aloud if there was "any limit to how stupid the organization could collectively become".
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under_believer
Good observations, metatron. I believe that the Governing Body realizes the same things (though it's taken them too long to do so) and are desperately trying to claw their way back up to being prominent. That's what 2006 has been all about--lighting a fire. I think it's probably too little, too late, but time will tell.
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Trade Centers/Pentagon
by Butters ini was wonderin' how you guys see the conspiracy of the trade center demolition and the attack on the pentagon?
it has been well established now some years later that there must have been detonation devices lining the elevator shafts of the three trade towers that collapsed.
after 1 and 2 fell, no one really ever questioned the way that 3rd one fell in the same manner (pancake collapse style, as a controlled demolition goes).
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under_believer
This is just my opinion, so take it FWIW:
Please don't bring up 9/11 conspiracy theories on this board. It has been done to death, is an extremely divisive issue, and is not germane to the subject at hand (Jehovah's Witnesses.)
Again, it's just my opinion. -
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under_believer
At the end of the day, what is scary is what will happen to the Korean Peninsula. Because if NK drops nukes on someone, the world as a whole will turn their country into a parking lot. Even China doesn't really like NK, they're just trying to play the odds here for the best outcome. When your closest diplomatic contact in the entire world is supporting sanctions against you, you're in deep.
This isn't the cold war, there's no Soviet Union to come rushing to their aid. This is a delusional administration governing an isolationist fossil of a country. -
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Paperback Bible
by PoppyR inmy mum proudly showed me the latest development, a cheap horrible paperback bible, she said how great it was to be able to turn the pages so easily!!
how do the dubs do it?
get people excited over making things cheaper and nastier.
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under_believer
Paperback Bible
Paperback Bible (paperback Bible)
Dear Sir or Madam, will you read this book?
It took us years to make, will you take a look?
It's based on a Bible by a man named Franz
I want Paradise, so you're taking this here paperback Bible,
Paperback Bible.
It's the happy story of Jehovah God
And the worldly folks who just don't understand.
His son is dying for the sins of all,
It's a gruesome gig and you'll read it in this paperback Bible,
Paperback Bible.
Paperback Bible (paperback Bible)
It's four thousand pages, give or take a few,
We'll be writing more in a week or two.
We can make it longer if our doctrine shifts,
We can change it round but you're gonna take this paperback Bible,
Paperback Bible.
If you really like it you can get baptized,
New ones make a million for our bank account.
If you must return it, we will DF you,
But don't you think about that when you read inside this paperback Bible,
Paperback Bible.
Paperback Bible (paperback Bible)
Paperback Bible - paperback Bible
Paperback Bible - paperback Bible -
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New Campaign: "The End of False Religion Is Near" and the Tribulation
by Mikeus inyesterday my wife (an inactive-but-not-yet-df'd jw) and i went over to visit her parent's house (still very active jws), and my mother-in-law handed my wife a flyer entitled 'the end of false religion is near' with a nice evil-destroying lightning bolt pictured on the front.
she whispered to my wife that this was a new campaign and was not supposed to be handed out until next month, but was "very excited, because this is supposed to bring about the tribulation".. they may be right.
inside the two pages they call catholics condoning child molesting (ironic), non-jws blood thirsty war mongers, and how people involved in politics are under mind control (again, ironic), among other things.
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under_believer
Run the numbers. How many active publishers are there? Multiply that times 50 (the number of tracts each pub gets). Now divide 6.6 billion by your previous number. That is the best case scenario of the ratio of people that will hear about this. Now think how many will get thrown away, how many publishers won't distribute anything like their full 50, etc...
Now on top of that throw in real global concerns--people who are going hungry, people who are sick or dying, worries about terrorism, global climate change, school violence, the upcoming mid term US congressional race, the economy, and what's going to happen next week on Grey's Anatomy.
This campaign will have as much effect as... well, as nothing. It won't even be a blip on the world radar.
Short of Rutherford-style religious intolerance and harassment or outright terrorism, NOTHING the Witnesses could ever do will amount to anything at all on the world stage. The numbers are against them. -
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Womens Right`s are they Wrong?
by dido inwomen today fight for `women`s right`s` but are they doing women any favours?
as far as i can see, they have just made it harder for them.
now they are expected to have the kids, work full time, clean house, cook, babysit, taxi drive, nurse, etc., i think they have done us a disservice, by trying to be `equal` to men in the workplace.
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under_believer
What I support for ALL humans is personal dignity, freedom of choice, and adherence to personal responsibility. You make out what that means for "Women's Rights."
Personal experience: my wife, by her own choice, is a stay-at-home mom. Had she wanted a professional career (and she still may, later), I would have supported her in that, but only as long as it didn't affect our children negatively. I would even have been willing to hinder my own career for this goal, but it wasn't necessary and it has to be said that we make more money this way (I'm an engineer with high earning potential.) My wife is what I'd describe as a rabid supporter of women's rights and also a traditionalist. This is what she chose and I support her in it. -
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John 17 does not supports the Trinity
by architect ini know that there are threads about the trinty on this site- but there is no end to the reasearch that can be had.
when reading john chapter 17 you cannot help but see that jesus had a relationship with his father.
if jesus is god in the flesh who was he talking to?
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under_believer
For the record there are many different kinds of Trinitarianism. The JW strawman is that all understandings of the Trinity are Modalism. There really are some Modalist Trinitarians, but most of Christianity, as already mentioned, is not Modalist.
Click here for more information. -
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"Won't you all look stupid when Armageddon comes!"
by jgnat ini've often pondered the impossibility of arguing with an armageddon-believer.
it's like, the only way you can prove they are wrong is out-wait them.
and if they refuse to set a date, well, you'd be staring the poor prophet down when you are wobbly, grey, and snaggle-toothed.
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under_believer
Or Mary, better yet, get them to promise they'll quit the faith.
Neither contract would be enforceable, btw. :) But fun to contemplate. -
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evolution or creation? lets talk...
by Sam87 inok, lets have a discussion about where we all came from, evolution or creation?
(or whatever you beleive in of course) every one put down there main reasons, along with reasonable facts and backup as to why.. .
hopefully this doesnt start to many arguments, lol.. .
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under_believer
But dido, speciation (that is, the process of one species turning into two species) does occur. It has even been observed by scientists--it's not in doubt. See this link for more information.
Here's the deal--that's evolution. Those things (selection of traits, environmental adaptation, mutation, speciation) ARE evolution. If you accept that they all exist, and it would be hard not to, then you accept evolution.
It's not nearly as sinister as you thought, is it? And really, if you believe in God, it's a wonderful testament to God's cunning and inventiveness. It's an amazing part of the natural world we live in, and it's yet one more glory to God.
Evolutionary biologists say a lot more things, though--they say the biological facts listed above mean that we share a common ancestor with chimpanzees, for example. Well, I doubt you'd disagree that humans are related to monkeys--our DNA is mostly the same, and our bodies and organs and even social patterns are very similar. If you're related to somebody, doesn't that mean that you share a common ancestor with them?
Whether you want to make that additional step is up to you. But you believe in evolution, as it stands--and you don't even have to give up God to do it. You might have some trouble making Genesis literally true, though...
But then nobody in the world thinks that every word in the entire Bible is literally true. Nobody.