for those still in the organization what is your meeting attendance like these days?.
when i left in 2017 there were around 80 publishers and the average meeting attendance was 70..
Vanderhoven7 : The last report by the coward organization was 70,000 are disfellowshipped a year, with 2/3 NEVER returning after freeing themselves from the cult and its false doctrine.
According to the news report on jw-dot-org (November 13, 2024) there was a "43.2 percent increase in those who returned to Jehovah, with 65,816 who were reinstated" in the 2024 Service Year Report. There is a thread on this here.
i would like to start a thread on lies that the watchtower and their reps have told.
surely we all have one or two that truly sticks out in our memories, no matter how much we would like to forget.
my favorite wt lie: the reason they don't want to release the name of the "scholars" who worked on the new world translation is because they do not want to accept "glory and honor" from others.
Sea Breeze : Simply being told what a student must accomplish in order to be invited to Oxford as a Rhodes Scholar, is certainly not the same as “being offered the privilege of going to Oxford or Cambridge in England under the Rhodes plan”
Since you (Sea Breeze) quoted from Franz's autobiography ((in the article “Looking Back Over 93 Years of Living” for the May 1, 1987, Watchtower magazine), I'm surprised at what you missed out. Franz went on to say :
I have never regretted that, shortly before the announcements by the educational authorities regarding the outcome of the examinations for the Cecil Rhodes Scholarship, I wrote a letter to the authorities and advised them that I had lost interest in the Oxford University scholarship and that they should drop me from the list of contestants. This I did even though my professor in Greek at the university, Dr. Joseph Harry, informed me that I had been chosen to receive it. [My italics]
As regards Franz's study of Greek at the University of Cincinnati, Franz writes in his autobiography :
To the continued study of Latin, I now added the study of Greek. What a blessing it was to study Bible Greek under Professor Arthur Kinsella! Under Dr. Joseph Harry, an author of some Greek works, I also studied the classical Greek. I knew that if I wanted to become a Presbyterian clergyman, I had to have a command of Bible Greek. So I furiously applied myself and got passing grades.
disfellowshipping is slowly fading into the night.. last efforts to survive.. https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/1gh3ilq/wt_vs_norway_wt_sends_letter_to_the_goverment/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button.
Earnest : It could be genuine as these errors are not impossible but I think unlikely.
I have now received a copy of the letter from the Norwegian Ministry of Children and Families and can confirm it is genuine.
disfellowshipping is slowly fading into the night.. last efforts to survive.. https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/1gh3ilq/wt_vs_norway_wt_sends_letter_to_the_goverment/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button.
St George of England : If this letter is genuine, did the WT Society make this blunder or is it the translator?
I noticed that blunder too, St George. It is in the "original" copy of the letter which makes me wonder whether the letter is genuine. The email address at the top left is also not normally shown in Watchtower letters to the Norwegian government. The signature is a bit different to Pedersen's usual signature (leaving out the 'n' in Jørgen). It could be genuine as these errors are not impossible but I think unlikely.
in an earlier thread another poster asserted that there is no evidence that revelation 3:14 played a part in the 4th controversy that led to the trinity doctrine.
this was claimed as evidence that the description of jesus as “the beginning of the creation of god” in the verse was not understood to mean that jesus was god’s first creation.
the scholarly greek–english lexicon of the new testament & other early christian literature 3e (2001) by bauer, arndt, gingrich, and danker, in its latest edition states that “first creation” is indeed the probable meaning of the greek phrase.
Blotty, the language in the Bible isn't unique in some way but was also used by the people contemporary with the writers. The numerous Greek papyri found at Oxyrhynchus (in Egypt) help us to understand how certain Greek words were used in the NT. When there is more than one meaning to a word then, of course, you have to understand it in context.
The Bible lexicon which you quote (Thayer's) says that in the Bible ktizo means "to create: of God creating the world, man etc" but it is also means in a figurative sense "to found [or build or make] a city" as at 1 Esdras 4:53 :
"...and that all who came from Babylonia to build [or, make] the city [κτίσαι τὴν πόλιν] should have their freedom"
in an earlier thread another poster asserted that there is no evidence that revelation 3:14 played a part in the 4th controversy that led to the trinity doctrine.
this was claimed as evidence that the description of jesus as “the beginning of the creation of god” in the verse was not understood to mean that jesus was god’s first creation.
the scholarly greek–english lexicon of the new testament & other early christian literature 3e (2001) by bauer, arndt, gingrich, and danker, in its latest edition states that “first creation” is indeed the probable meaning of the greek phrase.
LXX Proverbs 8:22 (Vaticanus) (https://digi.vatlib.it/view/MSS_Vat.gr.1209, p.722)
LXX Proverbs 8:22 (Sinaiticus) (https://www.codexsinaiticus.org/en/manuscript.aspx)
εκτιϲεν (from ktizo) which Strong's concordance (https://biblehub.com/greek/2936.htm) describes as "2936 ktízō – properly, create, which applies only to God who alone can make what was "not there before" (Latin, ex nihilo, out of nothing, J.Thayer); figuratively to begin ("found"), especially what is habitable or useful."
the jw idea that believers are destined either for heavenly life or for endless life on earth comes in for significant criticism by critics of various kinds.
even some groups, such as the christadelphians, who share belief in a future paradise earth, don’t share the view that some christians are destined for life in heaven.
yet there is surprisingly quite a lot of evidence in the bible for the existence of two distinct groups of believers.
SheEatsDragons : That's too bad that you [Vienne] don't even have a copy of your own "mom's" obituary.
Since Vienne is a pseudonym (just like SheEatsDragons and FreeTheMasons and EasyPrompt) it's obvious she is not going to share her mum's obituary. She is entitled to the same privacy we all have on this platform. Even so, unless you have evidence that the original Vienne didn't die or that Annie isn't her daughter, you are sinking to a very low-level to criticise her because she doesn't produce her mother's obituary.
there might be a few that find this post boring, because, you know - its maths.. i like maths but im not a mathematician or condsider myself any type of expert on the subject.. there is a branch of maths called propositional logic that is used widely in computers and computer programming that allows computers to make decisions based on certain conditions.
for example: if a condition exists, then do something.
like: if the a button is pressed, then the letter a will appear on the screen.
Since we are discussing mathematics I should tell you about one of my favourite clerics, John Colenso, the first Bishop of Natal, 1853-1883. Prior to becoming a rector (in 1846) he had studied at Cambridge, got a first class in mathematics, had written manuals on algebra (1841) and arithmetic (1843), and had taught maths at Harrow and Cambridge. After he was appointed Bishop of Natal, which was then a British colony, he went over there, published the first Zulu grammar and English/Zulu dictionary, and established a missionary station.
His African students there asked him questions about Noah's Ark, the Flood, the crossing of the Red Sea, the Exodus etc which caused him to re-examine the Pentateuch and the book of Joshua. Being a mathematician he looked at the number of Israelites at the time of the Exodus and asked very pertinent questions whether this was possible, finally writing some volumes on The Pentateuch and Book of Joshua Critically Examined. Needless to say this created a bit of a scandal in England and you can read more about him here, but his work on the Pentateuch (linked above) is still well worth reading.
a black mass is a ceremony celebrated by various satanic groups.
it ... is intentionally a sacrilegious and blasphemous parody of a catholic mass.
- wikipedia.
Sea Breeze : Jehovah's Witnesses can't wait for you to die
Funny thing to say when their whole raison d'être is to spread the good news that God is not wanting anyone to perish.
former jehovah's witness elder committed to stand trial accused of sunshine coast rapes, sexual abuse.
a former jehovah's witness elder has been committed to stand trial for raping and sexually abusing young men on the sunshine coast over a 10-year period.police arrested 62-year-old mooloolaba man peter mitchelson in august 2022 and charged him with more than 50 sexual offences, including 21 counts of rape that allegedly occurred at various locations on the sunshine coast and in brisbane from 2008 to 2018.. the charges relate to five adult male complainants known to mr mitchelson through the jehovah's witness faith.. a committal hearing at maroochydore today heard mr mitchelson allegedly used his seniority as a former congregation elder to coerce the younger men to perform sexual acts for his gratification.. police said the acts were non-consensual and made the alleged victims feel "used, controlled, and lied to".. mr mitchelson was committed to stand trial in the district court on 53 charges, while charges of incest and torture were dismissed due to a lack of evidence.. 'positive affirmations' allegedly escalated.
the court heard the majority of alleged offending started with mr mitchelson advising alleged victims on how to use '"positive affirmations" to improve their confidence.. police said initial meetings with mr mitchelson involved alleged victims standing in front of a mirror repeating the phrase: "i'm strong.
This was already discussed here as well as ...
https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/5071208429649920/senior-jw-member-australia-charged-sex-crimes-torture
https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/5138666075193344/another-bad-egg
https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/6247931447869440/sunshine-coast-evil-elder
