I'm telling your right now it will never happen. One of the requirements to be a Bethellite is to drink. And thats just if you are an elder in the Service Dept.
The GB drinks too. So they won't outlaw it.
AllTimeJeff
JoinedPosts by AllTimeJeff
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14
...if the WTBTS Banned Liquor...
by BabaYaga inthere are those who had perfectly acceptable blood-transfusions way back when, and those who smoked before that ban.
things that were once fine become verboten.
of course them banning liquor is particularly difficult to imagine, as all of the in-depth accounts of bethel depict bethelites imbibing like crazy.
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A Grand Social Experiment for Michigan residents: Do You Know My Brother?
by B_Deserter ini chronicled in another thread the story of my horny, hyperactive older brother.
now for those of you in michigan and possibly the surrounding areas, you might know him.
i'll give you a few hints.. .
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AllTimeJeff
Check your PM...
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I've reached a turning point in my life
by B_Deserter inlast may, i finally admitted to myself that i am an atheist.
to me, being an atheist means that i don't believe any of the silly nonsense that puny humans have come up with.
many of the religions of man were started during a time when mental illnesses went undiagnosed and misunderstood, a time when man couldn't explain why lightning struck the earth or why rain fell.
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AllTimeJeff
I believe that (for lack of a better word) spirituality is important. We all need ethics. Humans do run on that, and that can't be denied. WHY these things are the way they are is something that has always been claimed as the perview of religion. Unfotunately, while people "buy in" to religion at times for their own personal needs and interests, it still is fascinating that people don't examine the other end of the stick that they pick up; that is, the consequences of giving a majority voice to what amounts to anecdotal evidence of "god" and the superstitious fear that fuels it. The religous leaders in turn, use this "majority" to argue for their religous beliefs (and power) in politics. It is a fact that religion fuels a lack of ethics and a loss of personal freedom and dignity. (something those who were once JW's can attest to very well)
But, any student of history will tell you that this is how its always been. We just have our 2.1 version of this in the 21st century. It would be nice in the future to see a more balanced view of religion, and the accompanying honesty of thought. I certainly am glad to see that people can express themselves. Freeness of speech is something few if any of the worlds major religions ever allowed. (ditto equal rights to women)
I will point out to the thiests who "argued" to "listen" for god, you all basically suggested we stick our ear in a sea shell to listen for the ocean. I know that you mean well, but seriously, have you considered all the good people who search for god and who never found him? To say only good and righteous people can "get" god is to feed the exclusive and divisive role that religion has always played. It doesn't help, it isn't tangible, it isn't practical, and it only feeds superstitous myths that we are trying to shed as a planet.
The biggest problems with "god" is that he is still silent, and he still hasn't done a thing about the problems on this planet. If it makes you feel better to "see" god in a mountain or a sunset to help you answer "why" and it gives you peace, then you have answered your own questions about how honest you are with yourself. That is interpretation to make one feel better, much like a child who assigns a name and personality traits to their favorite doll, all for their own comfort. Until we outgrow our "Winnie the Pooh" that is religion, we will still assign morality and ethics to what amounts to an imaginary doll. Just because we cling to it and it makes us feel better doesn't mean it exists, anymore then Christopher Robin, Pooh, and Eor exist.
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I've reached a turning point in my life
by B_Deserter inlast may, i finally admitted to myself that i am an atheist.
to me, being an atheist means that i don't believe any of the silly nonsense that puny humans have come up with.
many of the religions of man were started during a time when mental illnesses went undiagnosed and misunderstood, a time when man couldn't explain why lightning struck the earth or why rain fell.
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AllTimeJeff
There is a certain kind of beauty and honesty in admitting "I don't know..."
Religion can't ever seem to admit that. How long did it take the Catholic Church to apologize for saying Galileo was wrong about the earth not being the center of the universe, et al?
Although I understand why, I don't think it is right that Science be toooo dogmatic in asserting how we got here. If there is one thing that the 20th century taught us, is that now that Science is free of the shackles of superstitious religious control, there is a lot to learn. So lets learn it, lets not guess it....
I am agnostic. imo, the most honest and best place to be....
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"Let There Be Light"
by ElderChild inand the messiah testified that .
his god and father(creator) is the god and .
creation of god(he who is the only true god .
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AllTimeJeff
hope is there would be those who experiece The Miracle that is receiving "a love of The Truth".
peace, in spite of the dis-ease(lies) that are of this world and it's systems of religion for "the WHOLE world is under the control of the evil one" indeed and Truth....... francisco
So if you don't believe in the trinity, you are diseased?
If you don't believe in god, your are diseased and under control of the wicked one?
And you also admit that it is a "miracle" to receive a love of "the truth"? (which the way you described "truth" is as clear as mud)
*sigh* It would be a miracle to get some people to admit that they can't explain their strong emotional beliefs. (like that observation will matter, i know it won't.) Live and let live! All the best to you.
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AllTimeJeff
No one got close to any of them. So when I say I liked him, I meant that he never pissed me off. There was one that always did, and you have a 50/50 chance of guessing who he was! LOL.... He could be a very demanding.
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AllTimeJeff
I would ask by what specific means God revealed to them that Elisha and Elijah prefigured Rutherford and Knorr? A vision? An angel from heaven? A message in a bottle?
Fred Franz after smoking the theocratic peace pipe has always been my answer. ANYONE who saw Rutherford and Knorr after reading the first two chapters of 2 Kings should have a blood test ASAP........
Edited to add: I always get a warm fuzzy feeling when I think of this "prophecy". It was when we went through that part of 2 Kings that I admitted to myself for the first time that this wasn't "da troof". Tough place to realize it though, in a Gilead class room...
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AllTimeJeff
Yeah, I did. He was never one to offer advice on missionary life. He just kept it to the borgs version of the bible and Hebrew and Greek. He clearly enjoyed doing Hebrew and Greek. When he isn't teaching, he is studying those languages. He also speaks fluent Spanish and has been going to a NY Spanish congregation for years. Same for one of the other instructors.
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Jesus became King of God's Kingdom in 1914.
by TooBad TooSad inwhen i think back on the last 45 years of my life as a jw, it truly is remarkable.
how i as an intelligent person could have believed all of the things that the wtbts.
taught as doctrine and then for myself to teach others the same doctrine.. we could all give examples of this, however i was just sitting here drinking my coffee.
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AllTimeJeff
One thing about the borg is that the leadership at the local level (i.e. elders, ministerial servants and pioneers) are told to become "all sorts to all people" as "Paul" supposedly said in 1 Corinthians. Thus, you can take a college grad, or a teen, or a struggling young family, and they will hear what they need to hear to believe that JW's have the truth. Of course, they will be told 3 totally different things.
I find it fascinating, (and another untenable item found in the bible) that Paul made no bones about the fact that he switched the tones and content of his message to Jews, Greeks, etc etc etc. JW's do this exceedingly well. They are taught to "adapt" to the person. Forget truth, logic, and consistency. Their goal is to merely get you to become a JW. The end justifies the means in their stupified view.
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AllTimeJeff
Two of the three instructors actually went to Gilead and were missionaries before being "reassigned" to teach Gilead at varioius points in the 90's. The third insctructor was a protege of Fred Franz and used to be Albert Schroeder's Secretary. He reads Biblical Hebrew and Greek. He studies very hard. He is relied upon heavily to research ancient bible texts for the borg. He also occasionally writes articles for the WT.
None of the instructors go out of their way to get too close to the students, at least not in my class. All of what is taught at Gilead comes directly from the Governing Body in volumes of 3-ring binders. All instructors are required to cover their outlines thoroughly. Just before the class, the instructor will walk in and take his seat, and that signals that class will start. If they aren't teaching, they stay huddled in their offices.
The GB depends on these three instructors to serve as a committee in recommending brothers and couples, and making observations as to their personalities, etc.
As far as I can tell, all three instructors believe 100% everything that the GB teaches.