Gopher

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Posts by Gopher

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  17

  The Book of Revelation and our Time

  by Crazyguy in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i know there are not many peterists out there but for the sake of argument all you bible believers, a question for you.

  its looking more and more like the book of revelation was written for john's time and not ours.

  the number mentioned 666 is more likely 616 for the emperor caligula who put a statue of himself in the temple at jerusalem, and the first verses in the book and the last chapter all say that these thing will happen quickly.

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  Gopher

  mP:
  
  If Bible prophecy only applied to long ago people, then past, current and future charlatans wouldn't have anything to sell!
  
  It's obvious that religious leaders can make the Bible say anything they want it to say. "Jehovah" is a sock puppet in the Governing Body's board room. They make Jehovah say anything they want him to say.
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  17

  The Book of Revelation and our Time

  by Crazyguy in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i know there are not many peterists out there but for the sake of argument all you bible believers, a question for you.

  its looking more and more like the book of revelation was written for john's time and not ours.

  the number mentioned 666 is more likely 616 for the emperor caligula who put a statue of himself in the temple at jerusalem, and the first verses in the book and the last chapter all say that these thing will happen quickly.

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  Gopher

  I had a quite-knowledgeable JW friend (who later became elder) tell me shortly after the "Revelation-Grand Climax" book was published that he could understand why people in the territory (to whom we were offering this questionable piece of literature) would have problems with the book saying that every little thing in the book of Revelation applied to one group and applied only in the 20th century.
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  8

  God has always used one channel, one group of people, to communicate his messages to.

  by poopieskoopie in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  ok, since time indefinite jehovah has always used only one channel (his people) to reveal himself and future events to.. are we to totally disregard the dreams given to nebuchenezzer, then king of the world, in the book of daniel???

  yes, dreams directly from god himself to a pagan deviate with a weird name.

  why were they not given to daniel???

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  Gopher

  Also a revelation came to the future apostle or Saint Paul when he was still the bad Saul of Tarsus, on his way to persecute more Christians. Saul definitely wasn't part of the so-called "one channel".
  
  I don't think the phrase "one channel" is anywhere in the Bible, but of course it's all over the place in Watchtower literature.
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  268

  After 2000 years since JC was executed ,why have we heard not a whisper from GOD ALMIGHTY ?

  by smiddy in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  he/she had no problem talking to adam and eve ,though they were sinners in his/her sight .throughout the hebrew sriptures, ot, he /she had no problem communicating with fallen man ,imperfect humans , to dictate his will to his subjects by means of prophets , male and female ,according to the bible , the old testament ,the hebrew scriptures , god communicated not once ,not twice ,not even thrice ,but dozens of times during the first 4000 years of human history according to the bible.. why has this god been so silent these past 2000 years ,when their have been atrocities above the scale of anything that has ever been seen these past 6000 years of human existence .. oh you may say that the atrocities were not committed by god they were committed by man.

  fair enough .but god intervened in human affairs in such smaller infringements.

  with prophets or so the bible says.. the so called apostacy after the last of the apostles , the influence of satan in the world ,( or was that after 1914 ,) and the 2000 year gap when christ was supposed to return ,never mind about all the crap that went before it .. the fact remains we have never heard from god ,any god, or even" a " god, with either his/her approval or disapproval of events good or bad these past 2000 years... smiddy.

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  Gopher

  The Turin Shroud is a fraud. I hope that isn't considered "dogmatism". Radiocarbon dating places its origin in Medieval times.
  
  The original poster gives a reasonable explanation of why so many are skeptical of a deity such as mankind has described in its various "holy" books. According to certain Christians, he blesses people in wealthier countries by helping them win in athletic contests. But the same deity lets the prayers of innocent suffering ones go unanswered for decade after decade, century after century.

  
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  9

  'Train your kids to give us money'

  by The Quiet One in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  this weeks watchtower study, paragraph 11: "even young children can learn to be generous toward jehovah.

  'when our family makes a donation at the kingdom hall, we let our children put the money in the contribution box,' says their father, jason.

  'they enjoy it because, as they put it, they're giving something to jehovah'.

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  Gopher

  Shameless .... the WT Society taking advantage of children's natural desire to share. Hook them while they are young.
  
  And as usual, the organization = Jehovah in all their written material such as the Watchtower lesson you quoted.
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  12

  Two MORE Classes of Christians at the local Kingdom Hall

  by Terry in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  [if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:officedocumentsettings> <o:allowpng /> </o:officedocumentsettings> </xml><![endif].

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  [endif][if gte mso 10]> <style> /* style definitions */ table.msonormaltable {mso-style-name:"table normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-priority:99; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin-top:0in; mso-para-margin-right:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:10.0pt; mso-para-margin-left:0in; line-height:115%; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"calibri","sans-serif"; mso-ascii-font-family:calibri; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-hansi-font-family:calibri; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin;} </style> <![endif].

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  Gopher

  Nice breakdown, Terry.

  When I was in the organization, I often heard older ones say that new JW's should be put in a cage for a while because they're so apt to witness to anything and everything that isn't nailed down. These new ones overenthusiastically witness to relatives, friends, coworkers, etc. - really believing they'll see JW doctrine with the same excitement that THEY do. However, this rarely pans out. After a while these new ones calm down and realize very few, if any that they talk to will give them the time of day.
  
  My aged JW parents are among the "wait on Jehovah" crowd. They put on a brave, happy outer face. Anything that goes wrong in the organization is, in their mind, because of a problem in a certain congregation and certainly not the fault of the mother organization. They have no children who have followed their way, and it is a cause of embarrassment to them - but they moved 1500 miles away so it is less painful now, maybe. They have thrown in their lot with the old men from Brooklyn, whom apparently they love more than their own children or grandchildren -- just because the old men from Brooklyn told them that this is God's will.
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  4

  Need help finding title of a drama from late 1970s

  by gbrn in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i was speaking with my aunt recently.

  she and her husband have been in brooklyn bethel since 1981 i believe, soon after ray franz left.

  i havent talked to her in quite some time, since ive become inactive actually.

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  Gopher

  Hi gbrn.

  I don't have the exact title, but if you look in this link: http://www.centralprint.net/jwtalks/DC/1970s.html you will find the listings for all Watchtower conventions of the 1970's. Hopefully you will find the name of the drama you need.

  About this:

  "So it was basically saying something about it being ok to not always focus on field service, but to be conscious of being a good Christian in everday life.Sorry if that is vague, but does that ring any bells? She could barely remember herself, but insisted it was infiltrated by apostate writers."
  
  Actually Ray Franz wrote about this in one of his books after leaving the JW's: either Crisis of Conscience or more likely "In Search of Christian Freedom". He was one who influenced the organization for a short while in the 1970's to teach that it was part of your ministry to help fellow Christians and others too in line with what it said in James 1:27 (form of worship that is acceptable includes caring for orphans and widows, etc.).
  
  However after they had the so-called "apostate cleanout" at headquarters, Fred Franz and other hardliners changed the organization's teaching so that the ministry really was only hours that you counted -- and not the human-compassion kind of fine works.
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  12

  the god of bible is a god of love?

  by trackregister99 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i readthe bibleentirely and i study in the past with jw, but i have many questions and doubts about god.

  (sorry for my english).

  is god a god of love?

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  Gopher

  Hi TR99.

  Have you ever looked on this site: http://www.evilbible.com/ ? It supports what you and cantleave said, and gives even more examples.
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  165

  Board of bitterness

  by 1009 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i always was a critical jw, now df and agnost.

  but still this religion fascinates me.

  in my eyes most jw are very sincere, but dumb sheep.. this board is filled with ex-jw.

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  Gopher

  Why are you such fierce opponents?Why is the Watchtower so fierce in its denunciation of ex-members as bad association and so-called apostates as "evil"? The language they used this year at their convention really crossed the line. It is intended to stoke fear and hatred.
  
  When people are pushed really hard, it's human nature to at least give a little shove back.
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  165

  Board of bitterness

  by 1009 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i always was a critical jw, now df and agnost.

  but still this religion fascinates me.

  in my eyes most jw are very sincere, but dumb sheep.. this board is filled with ex-jw.

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  Gopher

  You said you read "parts" of Ray Franz's books and it never raised any doubt in your mind. So did you already know about the organization's tendencies to rule by raising fears, and to govern and make rules and laws in a Pharisee-like manner to maintain their control over their sheep? Did you already know about the Malawi-Mexico dichotomy in the 1970's where they applied two very different sets of rules to Mexico (more leniency to those closer to American headquarters and a country with more JW's) while practically inviting terrible persecution on their Malawian brothers?

  Here's the deal about so-called "bitterness" 1009: If and when the Watchtower stops writing defamatory articles about ex-JW's and apostates and quits speaking at their conventions like we are the worst plague upon mankind, then I will leave them alone and stop talking about their hypocrisy.
  
  I know there are other cults and cultlike groups that are equal to or greater than the Watchtower in their control tactics and "us against the world" ideology -- Scientology is one that immediately jumps to mind. I will also speak out against Scientology, but I don't know much about them. Someone who has been on the inside like actress Leah Remini can better define and describe their environment and their tactics. As for me, I know exactly what it feels like to be a JW in good standing and also a shunned ex-JW who is viewed as evil. So I will mainly talk about my experience with Watchtowerism.