Posts by sd-7

9

Do JW's need to ask permission for major decisions?

by 00DAD in

psychologist steven hassan writes that ""destructive mind control can be understood in terms of four basic components, which form the acronym bite:.

i.behavior control.

ii.information control.

sd-7

This is sort of a scenario where 'doublethink' comes into play. The Society tells you exactly what your major decisions should be, but then tells you that you must make your own "personal decisions" in such matters. They make clear that certain choices would be 'unwise' or 'dangerous' without directly telling you not to do them.

So the simplest answer is no, but those major decisions are heavily influenced by innuendo and threat, mob-boss style. [Bad mob-boss accent:] "Now, of course, you know, you could go to college. But would it really be a good idea? Think about your family. We wouldn't want anything bad to happen to them. I know you'll do the right thing."

--sd-7

83

The perplexing conundrum 607 b.c.e condensed down to ONE SIMPLE FACT

by Brother of the Hawk in

i was encouraged to post this thought, so here it is.. i recently finished reading "the gentile times reconsidered" by bro.

carl olof jonsson, ( third edition).

phew!!

sd-7

I always figured Jeremiah 29 is the key to wiping the 607 date out. The Society claims the Jews were at Babylon for 70 years, but the message in Jeremiah 29 (from which 29:12 gives the Society their "seventy years at Babylon" based on their translation) was given to people taken into exile 10-11 years before Jerusalem was destroyed. Jer. 29:1-3 very clearly shows that the message was given to the exiles in Babylon by messengers who were sent by King Zedekiah, showing that Jerusalem had not yet been destroyed. Jeremiah referred to these earlier exiles as--you guessed it--exiles, and told them they would be "at" (or "for") Babylon for 70 years. So for them, the 70 years started well before Jerusalem was destroyed. Thus, the 70 years cannot have started in 607. End of story.

--sd-7

37

Circuit Oversears treated like gods...did this happen in your Hall!!!

by Witness 007 in

brothers would full on laugh at the c.o's lame jokes.

fight over who gets him for dinner where no expense would be speared..."oh they dont eat flour, sugars or milk products...".

sd-7

Well, whenever I would attend the meetings during the circuit overseer's visit, I noticed that the volume and sense of excitement in the KH was always twice as high as normal. They would laugh at his jokes--hey, I found some of them funny, but sometimes the humor just doesn't merit the level of laughter that often comes out of people at the meetings, I mean, really.

Otherwise, I'm not sure how they were treated. I mean...I didn't really get to know most of them. A fellow JW actually boasted about my having graduated college while the CO was in the car. I admit I probably wanted to hide in a hole somewhere, but the CO was at least decent enough not to say anything derisive about that.

My experiences with them were generally limited but pleasant enough. I think they were more...dubious when giving talks at the assembly, where they had to spout the more extreme statements that usually aren't said at local meetings.

--sd-7

32

NLP, Subliminal Messages and the WT Writing Department

by 00DAD in

a few years ago i became interested in the subject of neuro-linguistic programming (nlp).

while the core concepts of nlp have been largely discredited as new-age pseudo-science, there is no doubt that there is at least some validity to the idea.

words and images remain the key way we communicate.

sd-7

To say "it is not wrong", in this specific case is to imply without saying it outright that your audience is in doubt as to the rightness of hoping for a loved one's return to the organization. Maybe even to imply that some of them might think it IS wrong to hope for a loved one's return, which would be a sad thing, indeed, to feel about a close relative.

So, then, who gave such people those guilty thoughts? Who tells them that people who leave are wicked and doomed to destruction unless they return? Oh. I see. So the Society creates guilt in the first place, and then cashes in on that guilt. It's like a double taxation on the conscience. This statement pulls the guilt up just a little, only to be followed by slamming it back down on the heads of anyone who might want to talk to their DF'd relative.

Reminds me of the confusion and guilt I felt years ago as I read an article that didn't quite answer the question of whether it was okay to pray for a DF'd person. The elders told me no; the Society was vague and only suggested that it was okay if you were in a position to observe their repentance (which is kind of difficult if you're shunning someone). One would think the sinner needs more prayer than the righteous person, but apparently the WTS feels otherwise...

--sd-7

34

JWs Lack of Love and Feelings

by jemba in

jw
friends

i have noticed the extreme lack of love in this group of people who preach love, love, love.. we recently had serious floods come through our area and the jws couldnt have cared less.

our 'worldly' friends did sooo much for us though.

raising money, giving gifts, cards, accomodation and so much support and hard work.. i personally think jws are one of the most insensitive, uncaring religions around.. three religious groups were absolutely wonderful during the flooding of our area.

sd-7

You can get shunned if you don't shun, how sick is that.

Excellent line there. Deserves repeating.

I can think of one act of kindness that stands out from an older JW, who became my friend, who I felt like...he was a grandfather I never had. He died some years ago, but I'll always remember that day I was sick, and he visited the house, and just left me a big bottle of juice. I didn't ask him to or anything, he just did it out of the kindness of his heart. I'll never forget that, because it was so rare, you know? So JWs do have the capacity for it, but it comes from within themselves more than it comes from the leadership. The GB is concerned with self-preservation above all else.

On the other hand, I can think of 3 years ago, as a contrast of sorts. There was a major blizzard, and I hadn't yet acquired a shovel at that time, since I'd just barely moved out of my parents' house months before. My car was stuck in the space, and I was trying to dig my way out with a scraper of all things. Out of nowhere, one total stranger lets me borrow his shovel, and another totally unrelated stranger actually digs out most of the snow for me!

Guess what my destination was once I got in the car? My judicial committee! 5 minutes down the road, three elders charging up their shun guns, if you will...gotta love it. So the world I'm preparing to be cast out into for the first time helps me dig out of my parking space so I can go get cast out into it...

It's no small sense of irony that I'm confronted with in the face of that. My wife having been DF'd years before, and me being ordered to shun her by the elders back then...and now... It was just unreal the way they spoke about her while she was out, like she would never be worth loving even if she repented. These same people who said this to me behind closed doors are now no doubt smiling in her face, giving her hugs, and shunning me.

Yeah. It's weird.

--sd-7

23

Well...Finally my coming out story....

by Botzwana in

jw
friends

i was known as bane on here....i have gone through alot.

this is my story as best as i can recollect.

it has taken alot of courage to write this and post this...be gentle.... http://monstercafesaltillo.blogspot.mx/2013/03/my-jehovahs-witness-story-part-1.html.

sd-7

Wow, dude. What a story. Thanks for sharing it. It seems like you've had a lot of pain in your life. Way I see it, you deserve some peace and freedom. And hope.

All those crazy rules about JW marriage, huh? That situation is just mind-boggling. The sheer number of people who have dealt with this sort of heartache because of these made-up rules has got to be staggering. The emotionally wounded far outnumber those who the WT has killed bodily from the blood issue, and really, what is done to their spirit is not all that different, is it?

As a fairly new father myself, it's touching to hear how highly you spoke of your own dad. I can only hope I would be remembered half as fondly by my own son someday. What an honor. And how cool is that? Worked with THE Frank Lloyd Wright? I mean, I learned about him in college! Dude!

You know, I think it's amazing just how much being a JW can conceal. I never would've imagined that 'Bane' would've been like, reading G.I. Joe comics or watching horror movies! Ha ha! But it's interesting to read that, though.

I mean, what impresses me about it is just how open and frank you are about all these deeply touching and personal stories. I guess...I can identify. Just with wanting to pour out your soul and hoping people who read your story will do so with an open heart and mind and try to understand.

Thanks so much for sharing this. I'll try to make a note to read the second part.

--sd-7

11

Can anyone help?

by Pink sapphire in

hi, i'm doing some research, which many here have participated in and could do with some help.. on another forum some months ago someone commented that in a july 1992 watchtower it said that the emotional effects of disfellowshipping may last far beyond reinstatement.

i thought this a really interesting statement and would like to include it in my assignment, acknowledging the harm done by disfellowshipping and its not just a protective and disciplinary process.

i don't know if i believe they would actually go that far.. my problem is that i have no access to wt literature (i dont really want fo visit my old congregation library) and the online library on www.jw.org only goes back to 2000. does anyone here have access to bound volumes and a bit of time that they could check this out for me?.

sd-7

the tarnished reputation and emotional trauma resulting from sin. Meanwhile, how comforting it is to have Jehovah’s forgiveness and the support of his everlasting arms!

Meanwhile, how comforting it is to run into the arms of the very person who presents your reputation as tarnished and tells you just how emotionally traumatized you should be when you sin!

--sd-7

26

NEW NWT'S Distributed at 2013 Conventions?

by TheSnarkyApologist in

chatter on the street is that there exists a very high possiblility of the new newworld translation being distributed.

it comes from a reliable sources, but who knows.

has anyone heard anything about this?.

sd-7

Nah, that would be too brazen of them. I can't see a reason for them to do a new Bible at this point. I think this same rumor was being batted around last year. Given the theme of the convention, I can see a bit more credence being lended to it this year, but...I really don't expect that to happen.

In my opinion it's way too early in the game, in mid-March, to be speculating about new releases. I guess I'll have to wait until mid-July, when I shall have to attend the convention...in person...

--sd-7

7

A quote that sums up my thoughts on the truth about 'the truth'

by sd-7 in

jw
friends

"we never make assertions, miss taggart.

that is the moral crime peculiar to our enemies.

we do not tell--we show.

sd-7

Aw, just admit it, you're trying to start your own church. You even have your own literature!

Very funny. It would be a bizarre church, indeed, if they actually studied the stuff I wrote...

--sd-7

27

Apostates are blown out of the water by an elder's response to my e-mail

by never a jw in

jw
friends

the following are two emails (one mine, one from an elder) that are part of an exchange regarding the unfairness of shunning.

he is an elder and a substitute of the c.o.

he comes from a "highly decorated" family of jw's.

sd-7

For example, many of them have indeed re-adopted false doctrines.

Such as? Since your people adopt a new doctrine every year it seems, which ones were true and which ones were false? Oh, right, they were just 'past truths', right?

Others have stopped caring about the public in general and no longer witness about God's truths as they used to before.

And how again is your ministry 'caring about the public'? You just shovel your literature at them. You don't help the poor or the sick, sometimes not even amongst your own people.

And as for the Christian command of meeting together, they don't.

And you would know this how? You follow them around? Or do you just assume that they must start another organization because you happened to be part of one?

Millions of people have stopped attending religious services in many different denominations, because they have had a change of heart. But the fact that it happens does not prove their former faith to be wrong.

Correct! In fact, it proves nothing at all about their former faith in itself, right or wrong. So your statement successfully makes no point whatsoever. What proves something about a religion is actual facts about its teachings, methods of operation and basically how they treat people. Those are the relevant issues here, not whether or not someone merely had a change of heart.

1 John 4:1 or somewhere around there tells us to do more than just "hope" we have found the real truth, it tells us to test the inspired expressions to see whether they come from God. That involves actual effort on our part beyond mere hope.

So yeah, this was just a continuation of an ad hominem argument. You didn't sink my Battleship.

--sd-7