Posts by saltyoldlady

29

Should I contact the Society and tell them I want out?

by sinis in

as of late i have been thinking about this.

my sig other and i have successfully faded, and the last kh i attended (cards were moved to) was like 8+ years ago.

i really do not care either way, however i have been asking myself as of late if i should.

saltyoldlady

I know what you mean about wanting a clean sweep - closure - I too wanted that so I did send them a letter listing my desire to separate myself from the WTS and my reasons for so doing. It felt good to take that action - and like I was honoring Jehovah in so doing. It is an excellent opportunity to "witness" to those who have been misled - at least the elders who will read your letter and who knows what effect it may have that will be beneficial for them. Every letter they get of this nature has to have some effect - be sure of that. It will rankle in their minds - maybe for many years but some may eventually investigate.

To give you an example - many years before an older brother of the anointed suggested I should read Ray Franz book. He was still inside the organization at that time and may still be - I do not know. I was shocked and wouldn't consider it and considered he was in terrible danger doing what he had done. But the day came years later I did finally read one of the books Ray Franz had written and that was all it took. So I made it a point to give the brothers a list of the books they might read to understand my position knowing some day they could possibly look one of them up. Turns out the PO that came to visit me for the "exit" interview confessed he had started to read Ray Franz first book - Crisis of Conscience many years before but not finished it. That night they were here I explained the material about the Malawi Party Card to them and they didn't believe I could be right. Someday I am sure they will check it out and will be surprised.

Of course it is not fun to have old friends shun you when you meet them out in public but I have survived and only feel saddened now that they feel constrained so by the organization to carry out that behavior. One dear friend did recently come to visit me after a whole year had gone by and apologized for taking part in that action. That was a great experience.

In your case - your having been gone so long I do not know what they will endeavor to do. It is possible they may send some local yokel to make a personal call on you and make one final effort to twist your arm. But you can survive that and possibly be an aid to helping those poor souls who do call on you. Just consider them your "Bible Studies" for the moment but try to avert arguments. They never achieve anything good for either side. Make your case concise and simple and then step back and let them know case closed if it appears they are not sincere in trying to understand. In my case they unloaded a lot of their troubles to me that night - admitted things were actually much worse than I even knew about - so it may be Jehovah will use you on that occasion. Just keep your channel of prayer to Him going all the time they are there - it helps greatly.

Also recently one of those elders called at my door in his regular field service ministry - I think unintentionally by the look of total shock and surprise in his face when I answered the door - but we were able to visit personably - his partner didn't feel comfortable - but he did and we parted company with a wishing each other well - another amazing experience. As time goes on I notice some now smile and nod at me in the grocery store instead of "the cold stony look straight ahead and pretend they never saw you" stupidity so that too is an improvement. Wouldn't it be nice if the day came they actually saw fit to stop the shunning business - dream on - I know it is not going to happen - but that doesn't keep me from hope.

What you do needs to be a matter of prayer between you and God. There are pro's and con's either way.

78

May 22, 1969 Awake! promises "you will never grow old" - Creative Writing

by Mad Sweeney in

jw
friends

the year is 1969. faithful followers of the watchtower society are gearing up for the imminent end of the system of things just as they had been for the previous ninety years.

a young witness named andrew is trying to decide what to do with his life.

andrew is a smart kid and he has an entire lifetime ahead of him.

saltyoldlady

So very sad and so very true - I think the ending is perfect just the way you have it. Thank you for sharing this piece.

96

April 15th WT - WT Society says " Obeying Us is Same as Obeying God "

by flipper in

jw
friends

this is a non-study article in the witness only version of the april 15th titled " do you discern the evidence of god's guidance ?

" essentially in this article the alleged " faithful slave " is telling witnesses that to be approved to survive armageddon- they will have to recognize the " faithful & discreet slave's " authority in their lives.. notice these direct quotes from pg.

4 , " jesus christ is the assigned leader of the congregation.

saltyoldlady

Flipper - this post has so struck a chord with me - and Metatron I highlighted that exact same scripture to my son-in-law about a year ago - he's not in the WTS and I think he thought I was "overdoing" it a bit to make that application but I think it bears typing the whole passage out right here -

Starting with verse 3 of 2nd Thessalonians "Let no one seduce you in any manner, because it will not come unless the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessness gets revealed, the son of destruction. He is set in opposition and lifts himself up over everyone who is called "god" or an object of reverence, so that he sits down in the temple of The God, publicly showing himeslef to be a god. Do you not remember that, while I was yet with you, I used to tell you these things?"

While I would not go so far as to say the WTS is The Antichrist being watched for in this passage I would definitely say the WTS has certainly played the role of anti-Christ - taking his name out of many if not most of their songs, downplaying his role in their translation of John 1:1, and addressing all prayers to Jehovah directly, sometimes forgetting to acknowledge they must go thru Christ and request all things in the name of the Lord, Jesus Christ. (Nor am I going on record here as being a Trinitarian - I simply feel they have downgraded Jesus Christ's role and position.)

They define the Temple of God (not as the scriptures do at all) but as "anyplace where true worship" is practised and they limit "true worship" to only that within the confines of the WTS. And with those restrictions in mind they have definitely set themselves in the temple of The God per their own perceptions. And when they say in order to determine whether something is true or not we must inquire of "Jehovah AND his organization" they have linked themselves to the very position of God, Himself, and even specified which God - the great God, Jehovah, by identifying themselves as His witnesses. The idea that He gave them this name as a badge of approval is as bogus as all the rest. That's why I try not to even refer to them as JW's for fear of blaspheming His great name. Are they publicly showing themselves to be a god - I think that can be answered not only in the affirmative - but that is THEIR PURPOSE.

And in addition they have placed themselves in the "mediator's role in place of Christ" - blasphemy indeed - by stating bluntly and directly that all will be destroyed who do not come to God "thru the WTS." This is just as bad as it can get - I remember back in the 80's when the WT came out saying the Great Crowd did not have "righteousness" being very disturbed by just that but that one did get corrected after about two years. But the scriptures in that matter were so obvious it made one wonder if they even read them themselves as they directed us to do. Now they have a WHOPPING LOT to correct to avert divine disfavor.

Their definitions given in Flipper's first post here are humorous to apply to themselves. Per their definitions the "faithful slave" give divine direction. I, at that time, considered the Holy Spirit to have witnessed to my spirit that I was indeed one of God's children, thus I partook. I had as much authority to declare myself a faithful slave as they had so when I wrote them about a matter needing correction - their understanding of biblical chronology - did they accept it? Did they immediately make an effort to apply it? Or did they continue doing things just as they had always done? Did they accept counsel? You know the answers - I did not of course tell them I partook of the emblems because one, I knew that would not make any difference whatsoever, and if I truly was one and they truly were one they would "know the body of Christ" via Jehovah's Holy Spirit. Well they obviously didn't recognize me as "one of them" - LOL. But more to the point, did they care about representing historical truth? Did they care about the fact that the Bible was being misrepresented as being inacurrate because history and prophecy could not be lined up with one another? Did they even comprehend that the Bible itself answered this seeming dilemma - I have to answer NO to all of these questions. I am ashamed it took me so long to see the light. The last question in Flipper's list - did they look to Jehovah AND his organization for guidance - well they looked to his organization for guidance - themselves - that is obvious, not Jehovah, because the two cannot be equated to one another. I consider that equation to be worse, far worse, than equating Jesus to God, Himself, frankly.

22

The Three Common Complaints by JWs Against "False Religion"

by sd-7 in

1. false doctrines, all taught to keep people in darkness, all done by those claiming to speak for god!.

2. misconduct by the leaders and by the followers with impunity (ie.

child abuse, adultery, etc., etc.)..

saltyoldlady

Excellent summation for reasons WTS does not qualify as God's Sole Channel or even His Channel period - I myself determined if I were to worship with Spirit and Truth I would have to leave the organization - and you can share with your wife it has indeed worked out to be a better way of being a Christian for me - the fruits of joy, peace and love that seemed so lacking before in my associations at the Kingdom Hall I now find abundant in what the WTS calls Babylon the Great. One doesn't have to dump the good because they leave the bad - I have kept the teachings and there were many - that I came to love as part of the WTS - and so far those in my delightful interdenominational Bible Study group have not passed judgment on me for differences of opinion with them - they embrace me and welcome my participation. So different from the days I had to watch every word I said for fear of causing dissension in the WTS - in my new association outside the WTS it seems nearly impossible to cause dissension because others are trying to understand and learn right along with myself from God's Word and God's Word alone. It is truly a delightful refreshment after nearly 40 years in the "dark."

172

The impossible delusion of evolution

by brotherdan in

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1icjkwzeee.

.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azmgkrkj5la.

saltyoldlady

Just wanted to call attention to another new book out on this subject - The Dark Side of Charles Darwin written by a man whom I believe is a former member of the WTS - Jerry Bergman. Have put it on my own "wish list" to read in the future. I have enjoyed some of his other writings on Mental Health and the WTS adherents.

18

What is happiness ??

by caliber in

jw
friends

what is happiness?

peace, serenity, music to calm the soul.. .

happiness can mean different things to different people.

saltyoldlady

For myself I have a little saying - Happiness is a personal decision, not a condition dependent upon circumstances, other people or things. Happiness can be had at anytime and anyplace simply by dwelling with appreciation upon Jehovah's wondrous works and ways, His magnificent dealings with the sons of men. I admit it takes really pushing the envelope if one is encountering earthquakes and tsunamis. But it can be done.

Happiness can be found in your efforts to overcome difficulties and is not conditional upon just the results. A little on the line of Viktor Frankl's idea of finding meaning in one's current experiences. Just the choice to remain positive and cheerful in tragic circumstances is a victory, the efforts to overcome evil with the good always buoys my spirits.

12

Jehovah, a Just God ?

by wobble in

on what basis could a god whose main attribute is justice (coupled with love) ever bring about something like armageddon, let alone bring it soon ?.

saltyoldlady

Well Wobble - I don't know that I can answer you to your satisfaction but the throught is worthy of contemplation - so just to get the ball rolling I'll make a small stab at this audacious project - the question is almost too big and too important to even feel like getting started - I admit to sometimes passing over those items that look like they are going to take a great deal of effort.

But let's just pretend you have a big family and some of your kids are really getting out of line and making the rest of the family miserable. This scenario fits close to home for me because I can relate it to my own daughter's current problems - her family consists of five teenagers, ages 13 thru 18. One child, - we'll just call him MJ (short for "most joy" - being used in a humorous vein) has some very difficult emotional and psychological problems - he has the propensity for turning into a psychopath. He can be very sweet and loving - one of the most empathetic of the bunch - he is now 17 - but at the drop of a hat he can become a raging maniac and make life literally hell for everyone around him plus being a danger to the environment of the community. You love the kid - but do you just let him have his "free will" indefinitely until he kills off the rest of the family including yourself or himself - that would be letting things get out of control for sure - so he is currently under lock and key at the local Mental Hospital for two weeks - maybe longer. Now do you consider the parents as having been unjust? Have you tried to live in this kind of situation?

The truth is the world seems currently to be "out of control" and those who want to enjoy peace, security, and justice have a hard time even finding it. Would it be unjust of God to take action at some point in time to bring it back into balance? I know you would like Him to wave His magic wand and make everyone whole, happy, and healthy. We would like to do that for MJ too. And at some point in time we are hoping to find the solution. God obviously knows the solution and He will do this in due time but He also has His wisdom in handling it the way He is for right now. Our job is understanding why that might be. And I think it goes right back to the issue set out in the Book of Job - it seems horrible that He let Job go through all that suffering just as it seems horrible to us today to see all the suffering caused by some of what appear to be "natural" catastrophes. The truth is we don't begin to understand the half of what the causes are but one thing I feel certain about is He can set it all aright and give those who have endured double the rewards of their past joys and delights. And I also have the firm conviction He desires to do just that. It served as an example for all the heavenly host to witness that His creation of man was in truth good and not as Satan was claiming - and it also served as a mighty growth curve in Job's comprehension of Jehovah too as you will find in the 42nd chapter. Not that any of us want to learn that way but if we have to we can trust God has a good reason.

Actually the worst evil to have ever happened was the death of Jesus Christ - a perfect man. But look what God wrought from that event. He can bring good out of every evil - we just have to be patient and endure until we get to see the end results. In small matters I have seen some of these experiences - where good came from evils experienced - hopefully it will come for my grandson, MJ. But how quickly and in what way it will be accomplished we do not always perceive.

Someone else's turn at the bat now?

15

Did the Israelites lay eggs like reptiles?

by doubtful in

i'm a newbie bible skeptic, but whenever i read the exodus account, i always had trouble swallowing the idea that a family of 70 people could possibly mushroom into a population of anywhere between 2-3 million in a matter of 215 years - (per the watchtower's timeline).

as i said before, math is not my strong suit, but here i will show my calculations regarding the possibility of this account, using the society's timeline.

i will ignore the fact that the bible says the nation of israel was in bondage in egypt for 400 years, and will instead use the 215 year timeframe, also because this harmonizes with the four generations from levi to moses.

saltyoldlady

The item I think you are missing here is the 2 to 3 million people were not all Israelites - it included a vast mixed company of Egyptians that decided at the last moment to join them. I think I would have joined them too - after seeing the demarcation of the calamities befalling the natives and the Israelites being blessed. The number of 600,000 men is mentioned in verse 37 - plus women and children - so the multiplication rate doesn't have to be nearly as great as you have calculated here - and the word VAST probably included more Egyptians than Israelites is my guess.

17

Dealing with JWs who want to meet you

by skeeter1 in

i'm a never baptized, raised in ex-jw who is, shall we say, outspoken against the jws.

when i first left, i told my relatives that i thought the jws were full of crap.

i tried to show them everything.

saltyoldlady

To tell it like it is - the problem is you are trying to be "nice" in your dealings with these people - and my experience has become there just isn't any "nice" way to deal with "not nice" people. I tend to think as you - that to draw some of them out of the organization would result in a complete fragmentation of their "imagined" security - a total undoing of their life coping mechanisms - and I don't wish to take on the responsibility for their emotional destruction either so I have done like you - side-stepped the matter as adroitly as I could muster many times but when they persist it does get irritating and I've found it is best to just look them in the eye and say "I know what you are trying to do but I am not buying into it. Forget the kindness, thanks, but no thanks." It seems blunt and a bit crude but it usually works. However I hate seeing them wilt before my eyes - with that wounded puppy dog expression like I had just stuck a knife in their belly but I have learned to toughen myself to it. (LOL - this time means lots of luck instead of the usual lots of laughter. It's often LOT - lots of tears. Maybe we should just say we don't want to become pillars of salt like Lot's wife for coming back to the WTS - looking back!!! This time I am giggling since I already am called Salty - in their minds because I looked back to the world.)

10

Fox News Using Electronic Brain Washing? Hidden Hypnotic Signal Found

by freeman in

jw
friends

fox news is clearly identified with the republican / conservative camp.

recently i came across a thread where some of our more passionate posters were discussing the latest fox transgression.

it was being alleged that fox was overtly lying about protests occurring in wisconsin while the infamous palm tree smoking-gun video clearly showed otherwise.

saltyoldlady

Freeman - I have been following Nick Begich's material - reading all his books and watching all his DVD's over the last year - and it appears to me that the low ELF waves do indeed have the effect on the brain you are suspecting - subliminal type messages enhanced with those low frequencies. Also mind control can be accomplished enmasse on the population just by the broadcast of such - to quote the material on the back of his DVD - Mind Control

"Manipulation of the mind, emotions and physical health through new applied technologies continues to draw attention of military planners around the world. Dr. Nick Begich presents the most startling advances in this area of technology for both military and private sector uses. The presentation provides in depth information, demonstrations, background and forecasts of development of these areas of science as they affect our society and individual freedom. Enhancing human performance or controlling human outcomes will be the challenge of the centruy raising serious questions on the ethics of the science of mind control. Control of the human mind by external means is now a reality - how to use this technology is the next challenge for this generation. Approximate running time 1.5 hours."

As with every new development in the scientific field it can be used for both good and bad purposes but the bad often seems to prevail these days and I suspect you have stumbled upon just one more instance of such. Nick, being a native of Alaska, became acutely aware of this field because of his investigations into the HAARP installation in Alaska.