according to the theosophical glossary of helene petrovna blavatsky.
jehovah (heb.).
the jewish "diety name is compound of two words , viz of jah (y i or j, yodh, the tenth letter of the alphabet) and hovah (havah, or eve)," says a kabalistic authority, mr. j. ralston skinner of cinciniati, u.s.a. and again, "the word jehovah, or jah-eve, has the primary meaning of existence or being as male female".
Well, I don't know much about Kabalists and all that, but I DO know that Ayrton Senna was one HELL of a Formula One driver, and just wanted to show off that I understood your name.
Because I DON'T understand your post very well.
Welcome to the Board, Senna!
outnfree
i received the suggestion below in an email and thought it might be a nice gesture.
if you would like to send flowers or cards of support to the courthouse the address is:.
adams county courthouse.
Maximus,
I greatly admire you and didn't mean to hurt your feelings. I thought of e-mailing you privately, but thought a public apology would be better.
I hope you'll accept it.
And the point is humbly acknowledged that the WT Blood Policy IS CHILD ABUSE.
Sorry,
outnfree
panel oks bill requiring clergy to report abuse.
by john mcelhenny, the associated press.
boston priests and other clergy have been havens for secrets, virtually beyond the reach of civilian authority or law for thousands of years.. but after widespread reports of sexual abuse of children by priests and a middleton church worker, lawmakers are moving to get rid of a long-held clerical privilege in the name of protecting children.. on tuesday, lawmakers gave initial approval to a bill that would require priests and other clergy to report sexual abuse of children to law enforcement if they learn about it outside of the confessional.. we need to make the hierarchy of whatever religion understand that they cant allow the people under them to get away with the things theyve gotten away with, said rep. patricia haddad, d-somerset.
This is grand news!
(And who are "we" GodRules? I Peter 3:9 (NWT) "not paying back injury for injury, or reviling for rebiling, but, to the contrary, bestowing a blessing, because YOU were called to this [course[, so that YOU might inherit a blessing" -- application please? I don't get it!)
D’Avolio said the priest’s role as spiritual advisor would be damaged nevertheless because people would divulge much less to their priest if they knew any of it could be passed along to authorities.
Seems to me the churches who have such things as a formal confessional could make it clear to their parishoners that they should only divulge criminal activity to clergy when they are IN the
confessional.
And clergy who are also licensed social workers or psychologists could apply the same general rules by which lay people in those professions are guided: if the person being treated makes mention of intending to continue to hurt him/herself or any other person, the law requires reporting (in most states).
When I read quotes like the following
But church officials, while recognizing the need to protect children, say requiring priests to report conversations in the rectory or anywhere else would violate the trust people have in them – a trust that civil authorities have recognized for thousands of years.
I think that the church officials are STILL more interested in protecting the ADULT officials and their time-honored POSITIONS as spiritual advisors than they are in "recognizing the need to protect children."
Very simple to have the media broadcast everywhere that it is no longer safe for a criminal to say anything incriminating to a priest unless they are both in the confessional inside church. Period. The message WILL get through, loud and clear, and children can thus BE protected.
The moral imperative in the Catholic Church as in any other so-called Christian church is to remember that child sexual abuse is WRONG and that "Jesus Loves the Little Children".
Or am I way off base here?
outnfree
i received the suggestion below in an email and thought it might be a nice gesture.
if you would like to send flowers or cards of support to the courthouse the address is:.
adams county courthouse.
Max,
While I greatly admire the passion and poignancy in your response above, the cold hard fact is that flowers will mean nothing to the dead little girl in India, and her parents, who blindly followed the WT's leading on the surgery now have a lot of guilt to live with that flowers won't assuage.
This thread is about SUPPORT FOR THE LIVING, BREATHING, INJURED person who is Erica Rodriguez. Forgive me for thinking that your comments are out of line.
The blood issue is about physical murder. To me, the child molestation issue is also about the taking of life -- because life is never what it could have been for the victims.
We cannot all help every worthy cause. You have picked your primary battlefield. Bill and others have picked a different one. Both are WORTHY.
I personally think that flowers being delivered at the courthouse is extremely impractical unless arrangements can be made in advance for a storage place for them and the letters. CAN that be arranged?
Love to all,
outnfree
just a reminder to those who never did read this: .
ps: hello watchtower legal dep!
i guess you love this:.
How interesting that you should post this letter, Kent, when I was just reviewing it last night and shaking my head in utter disbelief!
Some comments:
Elders must give special heed to the counsel: "Do not reveal the confidential talk of another." (Proverbs 25:9) Often the peace, unity and spiritual well-being of the congregation are at stake. Improper use of the tongue by an elder can result in serious legal problems for the individual, the congregation, and even the Society. [italics mine]
WHICH individual will have legal problems in the event of "loose lips?" If an elder speaks the truth, where is the culpability? How self-serving is the statement that the peace, unity and spiritual well-being of the congregation are at stake. If the elder knew of a confessed pedophile and tried to warn others in the congregation so that children were not at risk, would he be a slanderer? No! And while the unity of the congregation might suffer as parents took measures to shield their children from risk, the spiritual well-being of the congregation would best be served if the pedophile were expelled.
While we as Christians are ready to forgive others who may wrong us, those in the world are not so inclined. Worldly persons are quick to resort to lawsuits if they feel their "rights" have been violated.
Would someone please explain to me the difference between "rights" and rights? If a lawsuit has any merit, one's rights, not "rights"[so-called] HAVE been violated!
And notice the siege mentality in the next sentence:
Some who oppose the Kingdom preaching work readily take advantage of any legal provisions to interfere with it or impede its progress.
Again, what is inherently wrong with availing oneself of legal remedy for a crime committed against one?
The spirit of the world has sensitized people regarding their legal "rights" [there's those quotation marks again!] and the legal means by which they can exact punishment if such "rights" [ibid] are violated. Hence, a growing number of vindictive or disgruntled ones, as well as opposers, have initiated lawsuits to inflict financial penalties on the individual, the congregation or the Society.
Why are the plaintiffs in any suit "vindictive," "disgruntled" or "opposers"? Could they not possibly be legitimate VICTIMS of a crime or fraud which was not properly handled by the congregation? Do sexually abused children and their parents have the right to be "disgruntled" at "the individual" molester, the elders in "the congregation" who may have covered over the abuse, or "the Society" for their dangerous internal policies for dealing with these pedophile predators?
Many of these lawsuits are the result of misuse of the tongue.
While I know the Society didn't mean it this way, could 'many of these lawsuits' have been instigated because the tongues of the elders were NOT used in a way that would benefit the spiritual well-being and moral quality of the congregation? Hmmmmmmm?
It is far more likely that elders do NOT breathe a word about the accused or confessed pedophile. How many lawsuits for "slander" are brought against the Society because an elder talked too much?
In fact, the breach of confidentiality the Society seems overly concerned about is likely this:
A search warrant is a court order authorizing the police to search premises to locate evidence that may be used in a criminal prosecution. No elder should ever consent to the search of a Kingdom Hall or any other place where confidential records are stored. How- ever, armed with a search warrant the police do not need consent and may even use force to accomplish their task. Likely before obtaining a search warrant, the police or other governmental officials will
make inquiries regarding confidential records, make request to obtain the records, or indicate that they will seek a search warrant if the elder(s) involved does not cooperate. In any such situation, the Society's Legal Department should be called immediately.
At any time an elder is confronted with a search warrant (whether given advance notice or not) , the elder should first ask to read the warrant. After reading it he should ask if he can call for legal guidance and then call the Society's Legal Department. If for some reason the Legal Department cannot be contacted, the elders involved should make every effort to obtain the assistance of a local attorney for the purpose of protecting the confidentiality of the records. It may be impossible to stop determined officers from conducting the search authorized by the warrant. Conscientious elders will want to do all they reasonably and peaceably can to preserve the confidentiality of the congregation in harmony with the principle set out in Acts 5:29.
Under the guise of perserving "the confidentiality of the congregation in harmony with the principle" 'In answer Peter and the [other] apostles said: "We must obey God as ruler rather than men.", the elders would obstruct justice? Not trust police officers to display professionalism and to maintain necessary confidentiality in "a criminal prosecution"?
We all know that in states that do NOT require "clergy" reporting to the authorities, no report of alleged child abuse will occur. But
the following is just downright despicable:
D. Crimes and Criminal InvestigationsTo avoid entanglement with the secular authorities who may be investigating the same matter, the strictest confidentiality (even of the fact that there is a committee) must be maintained.
Now:
If the alleged wrongdoer confesses to the sin (crime), no one else should be present besides the members of the committee.
Why? SO THAT ELDERS CAN TRY TO INVOKE CLERGY-PENTITENT PRIVILEGE IN A COURT OF LAW SHOULD THE CRIMINAL PROSECUTION GO FORWARD, that's why!!!
And only another Jehovah's Witness would understand THIS:
When evidence supports the accusation but genuine repentance is not displayed resulting in a decision to disfellowship, this should be handled in the normal course regarding advice of appeal rights and announcements to the congregation.
In other words, NOBODY in the congregation will be told that their children are at risk from the unrepentant molester -- not even fellow family members if the Watch Tower had its way! It will simply be announced that Brother or Sister XXXX has been disfellowshipped or the announcement will be held in abeyance until an appeal committee has ruled.
And, of course, if Brother or Sister XXXX HAD confessed and been repentant, nothing would necessarily be done in the way of discipline either!
How sick is that?!!!!
Can we say EVIL?
outnfree
hi folks;.
news about the watchtower is spreading, and the guys at legal dep don't like it.
here is a few places:.
lol@nytelecom1!
Thanks, Kent, for putting all this info at my fingertips. It will come in handy!
outnfree
P.S. Does anyone have an URL to a copy of the 2 Jan 2001 release FROM the WT re: silentlambs' resignation?
the feb2001 km has this in the "announcements":.
"the secretary should see that the regional building committee is kept up-to-date on the status of all baptized publishers who have submitted kingdom hall volunteer worker questionaire (s-82) forms.
when there are adjustments in a volunteer's status, such as when one moves or is appointed as a ministerial servant, or elder, new forms should be filled out promptly and submitted.
In which case the reasoning man/woman identifies with a position between the two extremes of viewpoint. Which is?
That the VOLUNTEER be encouraged to submit his/her change of address and telephone number to the Regional Building Committee.
And that ELDERS not provide any information other than "Brother/Sister So-and-So has
pick one
voluntarily removed him/herself from the Kingdom Hall Building pool of workers;" or
requested that we remove his/her name from the Kingdom Hall Building pool of workers," or
whatever is done when ANY publisher in good standing decides to 'retire' from the pool of workers for any reason.
outnfree
this little item from the 08 sept 2001 awake!
caught my eye, making me think that as the "generation" ages and the tower becomes more and more mainstream, the need for armageddon to come soon "to bring to ruin those ruining the earth" may not be so urgent:.
'overpopulation' a myth?.
This little item from the 08 Sept 2001 Awake! caught my eye, making me think that as the "generation" ages and the Tower becomes more and more mainstream, the need for Armageddon to come soon "to bring to ruin those ruining the earth" may not be so urgent:
'Overpopulation' a Myth?
"Amazing as it may seem, the entire population of the world can be housed in the U.S. state of Texas," reports Vitality magazine. According to the article, the current United Nations estimate of the world's population is about six billion people, and Texas has a land area of some 262,000 square miles. The amount of living space per person would therefore be more than 1,217 square feet. "A family of 5 would thus occupy more than 6,085 square feet of living space. Even in Texas, that's a mansion," says Vitality. Meanwhile the rest of the world would be completely empty, available for all of mankind's agricultural, manufacturing, educational, and recreational activities!"
These thoughts come to mind:
- Those witnesses who have been dreaming of mansions in the New System apparently have got it right -- if only six MILLION Witnesses remain, imagine the size of THEIR houses after those carrion birds do their work!!!
- But would they WANT to live in Texas? I mean, there are some nice parts, but a LOT of it is quite dusty and hot, or MUGGY and hot (think Galveston, people!) I mean it IS supposed to be paradise we're talking about here...
Just musing here, folks!
outnfree
edited to "quote" the article properly
thanks for your thoughts and well wishes.
liza made it through the surgery ok. it turned into a 3 1/2 hour surgery instead of the 2 hours they predicted, oh well.
she ended up losing one of her ovaries out of the deal.
I, too, missed the original thread, Yeru, and I am sorry for your wife's physical and emotional pain. You are a very good man, and I wish her a speedy recovery, and the both of you safe passage.
outnfree
so um what is a newbie and why did i suddenly become one???
oh well guess i've been called worse.
so i'm new here checked it out for a couple of days though.
Welcome, Chainsaw!
Your story sounds so damn familiar it's eerie!
I know a couple, about your and your boyfriend's age, where the guy got disfellowshipped around the time that he got serious about the girl. His family, of course, cut him dead -- VERY STRICTLY, none of this "family matters" leniency with the PO dad, pioneer mom & older bro, and sweeter younger bro. This brother was always gregarious and chafed under WT control.
HOWEVER, he missed his family very much, and so began bringing his g/f to the meetings. Eventually, they decided to get married. Out of all the Witnesses in his family, only one Grandma would attend. As he was df'd, his nuclear family declined to come.
His new wife was having a bible study (which I believe began before the marriage) with a pioneer sister who actually had the nerve to invite the wife to a social gathering of Witnesses to which the df'd mate was not invited.
The 'brother' FIRED that study conductor! Which caused a bit of a ripple in his reinstatement process, but he smoothed it over by saying that the study conducting sister was teaching his wife to be untheocratic by challenging his headship. Turns out the elder husband of the pioneer sister actually apologized for his wife's wrong actions. (Her contention was that the df'd brother was still OUTSIDE the Christian Congregation, and so could not properly be invited along.) But his point was that she was putting division in the marriage by asking his wife somewhere where he could not accompany her.
See what kind of a mess could happen?
The young brother is now reinstated. His wife has resumed a study with a different study conductor. I doubt she will ever get baptized and I wouldn't be surprised if the brother now does a slow fade so that he can keep in touch with the family. (At least I'm ferverently hoping so!)
Be very, very careful, Chainsaw.... this cult's tentacles are far-reaching indeed, and your boyfriend has many fears.
I hope you'll hang around.
outnfree
Ever stop to think, and forget to start again?
