Posts by Phizzy

18

Meeting attendance

by Farmer Jim1 in

jw
friends

for those still in the organization what is your meeting attendance like these days?.

when i left in 2017 there were around 80 publishers and the average meeting attendance was 70..

I too have wondered what physical attendance at my old K.H is like now, two Congregations use the Hall, and I have no way of knowing what the official Publisher count is for them. But back when I was in there was always 25% of that number missing at any one meeting, different folks each time, but that figure was about constant.

What is of greater interest to me is the number who have left since I did, over a decade and a half ago, others have died of course, and I cannot think they have been replaced by converts, so I am thinking the two Congregations in reality are no larger than when I left.

6

Apostles

by peacefulpete in

hear the word "apostles" and immediately the mind thinks of the contradictory lists of 12 men in the gospels.

however, the word (apóstolos) had a much broader usage in the greek speaking world, pagan, jewish and christian.

for simplicity i'd copy a few definitions.. the word apóstolos occurs only in the lxx in 1 kings 14:6, where it is used in a non-technical sense to represent the heb.

Phizzy

Agreed ! It seems that Paul used the word of himself in a new way, and later Writers like "Luke" picked up on the idea, and invented the Apostles of the Christian Movement.

K. Lake in the Books "Christian Beginnings", writing in the 1930's observed :

" Thus we have the extremely interesting linguistic fact that a Pauline-Lucan branch of Christian literature seems to have popularized and given a technical meaning to a word which was otherwise scarcely used, except in a different sense, in the whole course of previous Greek literature".

17

Attended JW funeral today

by usualusername1 in

jw
friends

never miss a marketing opportunity—even at a funeral.

funerals aren’t the first place you’d expect marketing.

but jehovah’s witnesses know how to turn every moment into an opportunity to share their message.. during funerals, they weave in their teachings of hope and resurrection, offering comfort and, at the same time, presenting their beliefs to attendees who may not be part of the faith.

Phizzy

Yes those elements are still there in J.W Funerals, the last one I attended was at least mitigated slightly by a few minutes that mentioned the deceased, of course mostly that contained the kind of nonsense where they say " So and So was a faithful servant of Jehovah". Spending minimal time on what the person was really like.

22

BABYLON THE GREAT IS NOT FALLING ANYMORE? (NEW LIGHT FROM THE ANNUAL MEETING)

by raymond frantz in

https://youtu.be/rsbfa_7lqv4?si=muuxmgtll1n1ifad.

the watchtower’s babylon the great: a shrinking reality?.

so this latest annual meeting introduced a new idea about babylon the great, and here is the part from geoffrey jackson's talk we real need to dig in and consider it's ramifications..... so you’ve got to hand it to them; they know how to keep things interesting with their ever-evolving interpretations and, of course, those classic "adjustments" in understanding.

Phizzy

For an interesting overview of the direction organised religion is going, this is good :

https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2022/12/21/key-findings-from-the-global-religious-futures-project/

30

Experiences After Leaving

by Freeatlast2024 in

i am writing to ask if anyone cares to share their experience and/or offer advice for people leaving.

i was raised in the religion, and both my parents died when i was very young.

i recently stopped associating because my conscience no longer allows me to preach or support the organization.

Phizzy

May be an image of text

30

Experiences After Leaving

by Freeatlast2024 in

i am writing to ask if anyone cares to share their experience and/or offer advice for people leaving.

i was raised in the religion, and both my parents died when i was very young.

i recently stopped associating because my conscience no longer allows me to preach or support the organization.

Phizzy

"You can check out any time you like,

but you can never leave"...

That is how the J.W Org. makes it feel, and tries to enforce, and of course it is true what we went through, both good and bad, more bad, will always be in our memory.

But if you expunge every J.W teaching, and every emotion they forced us to feel, from yourself, you then become the real "you", all fears and negative emotions are gone, one emotion I keep alive is my total disgust and hatred for what the org. is and does, as I find that keeps me motivated to oppose their nonsense and evil machinations wherever I come across them, in the hope that some J.W may find the Road to Freedom.

But please do the work to prove to yourself that everything they taught, including what they want us to do, and not do, in our lives, is False ! if you don't put that work in, you will never be emotionally free.

60

The Question of the "Great Apostasy" and the Historical Continuity of Christianity

by aqwsed12345 in

1. the continuity and visibility of the church.

the true church must be continuous from the apostolic age.

there is no room in christianity for a "gap" or interruption of thousands of years during which true christianity ceased to exist and then was revived in the form of another movement.

Phizzy

If the Ancient Church did not remain within the truth – as various protestant groups maintain – then they have a serious problem. They place themselves in the predicament of acknowledging the authority of an apostate Church that ruled on the Canon of the New Testament! How can they trust the Canon of the 27 books of the New Testament, if it was composed by alleged apostates of the truth? How can they be certain that those involved had made the correct choice as to which books are divinely inspired or not, if they had apostatized from the divine truth? If the Church had apostatized, how can they be sure that those people hadn’t chosen the books that were considered expedient and rejected those that weren’t to their advantage? If, on the other hand, they trust the Canon of the New Testament, then they –unwittingly- also trust the Church that created that Canon!

164

How did JWs arrive at a clearer understanding of what the Bible teaches than other Christian denominations?

by slimboyfat in

for jws who believe that jehovah had a hand in reviving the truth in the nineteenth century this is enough explanation for how jws managed to achieve a closer approximation to early christian beliefs and practices than other groups.

but is there an explanation for this phenomenon that doesn’t rely on supernatural intervention?

new testament scholar james dunn explains the difficulty of interpreting the biblical texts in this way:.

Phizzy

I like this bit from the Article in Rivergang's link :

" If however, the Ancient Church did not remain within the truth – as various protestant groups and heresies maintain – then they have a serious problem. They place themselves in the predicament of acknowledging the authority of an apostate Church that ruled on the Canon of the New Testament! How can they trust the Canon of the 27 books of the New Testament, if it was composed by alleged apostates of the truth? How can they be certain that those involved had made the correct choice as to which books are divinely inspired or not, if they had apostatized from the divine truth? If the Church had apostatized, how can they be sure that those people hadn’t chosen the books that were considered expedient and rejected those that weren’t to their advantage? If, on the other hand, they trust the Canon of the New Testament, then they –unwittingly- also trust the Church that created that Canon!"

164

How did JWs arrive at a clearer understanding of what the Bible teaches than other Christian denominations?

by slimboyfat in

for jws who believe that jehovah had a hand in reviving the truth in the nineteenth century this is enough explanation for how jws managed to achieve a closer approximation to early christian beliefs and practices than other groups.

but is there an explanation for this phenomenon that doesn’t rely on supernatural intervention?

new testament scholar james dunn explains the difficulty of interpreting the biblical texts in this way:.

Phizzy

I like this bit from the Article in Rivergang's Link :

" If however, the Ancient Church did not remain within the truth – as various protestant groups and heresies maintain – then they have a serious problem. They place themselves in the predicament of acknowledging the authority of an apostate Church that ruled on the Canon of the New Testament! How can they trust the Canon of the 27 books of the New Testament, if it was composed by alleged apostates of the truth? How can they be certain that those involved had made the correct choice as to which books are divinely inspired or not, if they had apostatized from the divine truth? If the Church had apostatized, how can they be sure that those people hadn’t chosen the books that were considered expedient and rejected those that weren’t to their advantage? If, on the other hand, they trust the Canon of the New Testament, then they –unwittingly- also trust the Church that created that Canon! "

12

Atheist philosopher Philip Goff becomes a Christian

by slimboyfat in

philip goff, professor of philosophy at durham university, in the past few weeks has said that he has become a christian of a fairly liberal and perhaps somewhat heretical variety.

it’s been a long journey from staunch atheism in his teens, to questioning the basis of his atheism and a purely materialist conception of reality as a professor of philosophy specialising in consciousness, to now considering himself a christian.

he says it’s the result of coming to terms with the fact that atheists and theists both have good arguments and looking for a middle ground that accommodates the best arguments of both.

Phizzy

He said that though he describes himself as a Christian, he is only "close to 50%" sure that his version of Christianity is true." He seems somewhat a rather confused Philosopher to me !

Goff, Philip (1 October 2024). "Why This Famous Atheist Became a Progressive Christian (Dr. Philip Goff)" (Interview). Interviewed by Bertuzzi, Cameron. Capturing Christianity.

Another Philosopher, Galen Strawson, in a review of Goff's Book has this to say :

"The question of "Cosmic Purpose" is genuinely difficult. I’m bothered by the fact that many of the arguments for fine-tuning depend on varying the fundamental physical constants (eg the charge on electrons) while holding the existing laws of nature fixed. I can’t see why engaging in this curious activity could ever be thought to explain anything, or support any interesting conclusion. And if – as Einstein and I suspect – nothing could possibly have been different, the fine-tuning arguments collapse, as Goff acknowledges."